I was just on the bi guy forum and reading about a member’s first experience in cock sucking and he said something that immediately stuck in my thoughts about how he felt about the other guy interacting with him as if he was a woman; he told the guy [basically] to stow that stuff because they were both men and knew what they had met for… so let’s get it started.
It’s a sentiment that I understand having had more than my fair share of guys trying to deal with me like I was female – including trying to blow smoke up my ass and, at least in my experiences, I got subjected to this more by bi guys than gay ones and, yes, I’ve told a lot of them – reminded them – that they’re not talking to a woman so cut it out already. Being on one now-defunct forum and joining this new one, oh, my – I see a lot of guys approaching, um, intimate interaction with other men as if they’re dealing with women.
Of course, not trying to offend women but as guys, we know all too well what we have to go through to get a date… and anything other than that. I’d say that at the mid-point of my bisexual journey, I’d run into a lot of guys who, when asked why they wanted to go both ways, would say that while women are all that and then some, they come with too many conditions, gets all mysterious and other things that made getting with other guys a whole lot easier. While it sounds like an indictment against women, it really isn’t – it’s just the way it is and, yeah, I had already learned that 99% of the time, getting into a guy’s underwear really was as easy as asking, “Hey… do you wanna do something?” – and now it was just down to what that something was gonna be, when, and where.
I remember a joke that was going through the office – the Application for Sex – and it was fucking hilarious and even the ladies were good-natured about it and saw the humor in it since it pretty much reflected what guys had to go through with them. But as a lot of guys were saying, sure – getting with a guy for any sex didn’t require an FBI-level background check or being interrogated in CIA style; you asked a few questions, agreed on something, and off you go to do it. Even in the “hookup period,” guys never looked at it as dating and “let’s meet for coffee” became a phrase that meant “let’s meet somewhere in public and decide on how to proceed from there…” and, yeah, sure – coffee would be gotten and partaken of. In the pre-Internet days, the conversations would get to the “what are you into” phase of things and once that bit of information was exchanged, now it was about agreeing on something to be done – which wasn’t always that easy but, again in my own experiences, if we couldn’t agree on anything else, we could agree to go somewhere and spend whatever time we had sucking each other’s dick until neither of us could get it up although it wouldn’t be that unusual for the script to be changed, you know, depending.
You met, gathered the “what are you into” info, then if things were set, off you went to get it done. No promises, no asking if you were gonna respect each other after the fact, and nothing that suggested or implied that a relationship would be offered although, admittedly, if the sex was really good and the two guys hit it off in other areas, um, sure – if we can, we can get together again sometime but if it didn’t happen, well, okay – shit happens like that. But, yeah, sometimes, the other guy would be going about things in that “getting the girl” kind of way and I began to understand that this was because it was something we were just used to doing, like convincing her that if we were to have sex, she’s not going to regret it and it wouldn’t be a mistake… or it wouldn’t be either thing if what was being asked for was a second date. Guys pretty much knew the rule for women that said no sex on the first date and as much as we might have wanted to bang them right then and there, it wasn’t expected… which would often result in being very surprised when she say something like she wanted to go somewhere else… but she didn’t want to go home.
So when I started seeing guys approaching things with other guys in the way they would have to do with the ladies, at first, I was like, okay – it’s an ingrained habit… until I was seeing that not only were there guys who would try to seduce us, con us, or otherwise convince us that they were worth sleeping with, there were guys who expected to be chased in this manner and those guys had some pretty female-like conditions, requirements and a firm belief that you weren’t gonna get anywhere near him on the first date while making it clear that they’re in this for more than just the sex and if that was all you had in mind, instant and immediate deal-breaker.
And I was asking myself, “What’s going on here?” I was seeing that guys were becoming more relationship-minded; they were having fits about dating up to an including trying to figure out how one goes about dating another guy in the first place and, wow, they really are going about this as if we’re women. I was wrapping my head around this and seeing that, okay, er, um, so that’s not necessarily a bad thing but it’s pretty damned peculiar to see so many guys pitching a bitch about being stood up or going on date after date without finding the guy they were looking for or, oh, my, goodness, being convinced that homey was Mr. Right… only to find out that they “got played” into giving up da booty and homey had no intentions on establishing an FWB situation with them. I was seeing where a lot of guys were getting greatly offended over being pursued for casual sex and making very firm statements about how they weren’t gonna have sex with anyone who wasn’t interested in establishing some kind of relationship.
I’d sit and read and listen to guys expressing themselves in this way and I even had to tell a guy who had hit me up with a proposal that, yo, dude – I’m not a girl so why are you talking to me like I am? In my talks with Cityman, he’d tell me that he was running into the same things – and more with bi guys than gay ones, too. He’d ask me what the problem was with two guys who confirmed that they wanted to get together and do something… but all kinds of hoops had to be jumped through… and I said, “I really don’t know! It didn’t used to be that difficult but I guess it is now!”
It had me really sitting back and taking a good look at the dynamic; a lot of guys would emphatically site the safety factor that being FWB with someone provided and while that is a legitimate concern, um, no – it’s really not as safe as they presume it is simply because you have no idea where his dick has been when he’s not with you or who – or what – has been in his ass and that includes any women he may or may not be having sex with. Was this the “main” reason? I didn’t think so (and I still don’t) but what I was seeing was an adherence to a standard of behavior that’s been with us for the longest time: The only meaningful and legit sex is relationship sex and anything that isn’t relationship sex is to be avoided at all costs. To be honest, I was trying very hard not to believe that not only were men now dealing with each other and as if they were dealing with a woman, a lot of guys were now taking the woman’s role in things as well.
A very major change in the dynamic and, again, I didn’t (and don’t) see it as a bad thing but, at least to me, it spoke toward a lot of guys not really knowing how to go about having sex with other guys… and now they find themselves in a default behavior mode because while they don’t know or aren’t all that sure about how to get a guy into bed, they do know what it takes to (a) get a woman into bed and (b) what it takes to convince a woman that, you know, being in a relationship with me wouldn’t be a bad thing. Along with what I’d been observing on the forum, I was reading other stuff where a lot of people were insisting that if you weren’t going about any of this and in the very traditional way men and women have been doing this since forever, you might be bisexual… but you’re going about it the wrong way.
Shit… I had even noticed that gay men were just as firmly entrenched in the heteronormative way of doing things and with many of them demanding exclusivity; not quite boyfriends, mind you, but the implication was close enough for government work and as evidenced by the many times I’d heard Cityman having a bit of a hissy fit because one of his guys was having their own hissy fit because he wasn’t exclusive to them and like they wanted him to be. And as I collected more and more information, I was asking myself:
Is this the new normal and the direction male bisexuality is going? Is “society” kinda/sorta saying, “If you’re gonna do this, you gotta do it the way it’s always been done!”? It sure as hell looks like it from where I’m sitting but, okay, I can see the sense in it even from a societal point of view… but I’m not a woman and, no offense meant again, as a bi guy, I don’t have or need guarantees or a whole slew of conditional things and, call me old-fashioned but we can meet for coffee or whatever… and it’s not a date because one of the things I learned from women is that a date is really an interview for worthiness to be in a relationship… and not just going out with someone to just be social. When I had a guy ask me what it would take for him to date me, I couldn’t answer him… because I have never, ever dated a guy; we just didn’t do that with each other and there was no shame in calling it a hook up, getting together, hanging out or anything that wasn’t related to dating… because you dated women and had to prove yourself to them and, well, again – that’s the way it’s always been… and it’s beginning to look like the way things are between men these days.
I mean, okay – I’m actually flattered when a guy is trying to woo me and I get tickled when guys are trying to “bullshit” me into having sex with them… but I’m not feeling being approached or propositioned as if I have the same needs and requirements that women have always had and need in order to make sure that they really aren’t going to be making a huge mistake being involved with them – and involved more than just getting together and having sex… because I’m not a woman… and neither are a whole lot of bi guys and that includes the ones who are really getting into their inner girl in this way… or, really, it’s what they know the best. It’s… crazily curious to having a guy kick game at me in this way and even though I’m quick to tell a guy that, look – we don’t need to get all into that stuff just to suck each other’s dick: Are you of legal age to consent to sex? To the best of your knowledge you’re healthy enough to have sex? And I hope you’re not the kind of guy I might have to punch in the face or otherwise is going to pissed me the fuck off.
I even considered – and because I had to – that maybe I’m just too much of an OG kind of guy about this and to some extent, I am… but if I don’t do anything else, I keep a finger on the pulse of the bisexual male dynamic and because I do, I see guys going about this in the same – or close enough – way that I would when trying to either “just have sex” with a woman or looking to be more involved… and I’m asking if this trip is really necessary and, yeah, my “problem” is that I can very clearly remember a time when things weren’t this… complicated. When I hear a guy say that he can’t find a guy he can be with, it doesn’t mean that there are no like-minded men wherever they live; what they really mean is that they can’t find a guy who is willing and able to be all of his very specific requirements that includes dating, no sex on the first date – and no casual sex at all – and with overtones of exclusivity.
Do y’all remember me saying that if you think women are funny about this, men are even funnier and to the point where it makes women look kinda easy to deal with? I’m really not trying to be funny about this when I say it because there isn’t a day that goes by where I don’t get to be privy to a bi guy’s desires and how he wants to go about realizing them and how so many are going about this in the nearly exact same way men have always had to do with women… and I’m still not sure if this is a good or bad thing on the whole. I’m OG enough to have lived through a period of time when a great many guys would turn to sex with other guys and because they didn’t have to jump through all of the hoops – and have their Application for Sex – approved by the management. Things change and I’m good with that… it’s just that this particular change is… interesting and there’s just a part of me that just ain’t feeling being propositioned and, dare I say, courted in this fashion. It’s not that I can’t or haven’t adjusted to this major change in they dynamic because it’s not that difficult… but I’m not sure I really understand why things are appearing to move in this direction unless it really is our way of going about things in the way we have been taught and conditioned to go about these things and in the venerable boy/girl way of things and under the same auspices:
Dating (really interview for suitability) is a must; no sex on the first date; no casual sex; one’s attention must be on anything other than just having sex or, there’s more to me that being a sexual object and lust is to take a back seat to things; there must be instant chemistry and every little nitpicking thing is a potential deal breaker and, oh, yeah, if we’re not going to be exclusive with each other, no deal. I get to see what guys expect, require, and demand of other guys in this and, yeah, I stand more of a better chance getting into a woman’s panties than I do a guy’s BVDs… and I don’t yet know why this is other than what I suspect:
It’s what we know. We were all taught to approach sex and relationships in this manner and women? Yep – they do hold us to this behavior and they do have a whole lot of reasons why they do… and now bi guys are – have – adopted a lot of those same reasons; some bi guys do not like being objectified; they feel some kind of way to be made to feel like they’re “just a piece of ass;” and there are not of a mind to engage in any sexual activity without a good measure of being into in place before anything sexual can happen. Good thing… or a “bad” thing? I really don’t know. Good if bi guys are more relationship-minded and that’s very much in-line with our long held belief that the only legitimate sex is relationship sex… except the reality of it all says that this really isn’t the truth of things and, again, “historically,” when guys are looking to get some dick, uh, let’s say it was, at the most, a on-off relationship thing; we can do this one time and depending on (a) whether the sex was all that and (b) there’s a way for us to get together more often for more of the same, okay – if we can or even want to do this we can but if not, that’s okay, too.
Um… not anymore, it seems. It’s being seen as a bad thing to know that a guy wants to have mad crazy sex with you… and nothing more than that; guys feel… diminished and insist that this kind of sex has no meaning and it’s empty sex and there’s so much more to them than just someone to have sex with… and, ladies? Does this sound familiar to you? If it does, well, it sounds all too familiar to me, too… and it’s kinda “strange” to hear it coming from other guys. If this is some “instinctive and socially acceptable” thing that’s going on, well, okay – it still feels pretty weird to me because it removes a choice in things, namely, wanting to have sex with someone without having to establish some kind of relationship if doing that is considered to be undoable, at the very least. Once upon a time, if a guy wanted to blow another guy, all they had to do was agreed that this is what they wanted to do – and then go somewhere and do it and whatever happened after that just happened and, yeah, sometimes, a kind of relationship would happen even if it was not quite as casual as their initial connection.
And there are still a lot of guys who see being bisexual – and having the sex – in this fashion or, as the saying goes, why buy the cow when you’re already getting the milk? The answer is: You’re expected, required, and demanded to by the whole damned cow and just partaking of the milk “for free” is not the way it’s supposed to be… and you’re some kind of fucked up if you’re doing shit like this… and male bisexuality is taking this turn into this mindset. Is it more socially acceptable? I don’t know – maybe it could be seen that way? Is it the way it’s supposed to be? Don’t know that either but I have the advantage, if you wanna call it that, in knowing that it rarely, if ever, happened in the way it’s supposed to be and, again, it was the one thing (among many things) that a lot of guys found very attractive about having sex with another guy – ya didn’t have to go through the same stuff you did with women… but now?
Sigh. I’m not complaining or anything but I’m both baffled and fascinated by this change in the dynamic. It can work – some guys are behaving like this and finding the sex and happiness they’ve been looking for while some are behaving like this and all they’re finding is disappointment because the guys they may be pursuing aren’t women; they don’t act like women, and aren’t thinking in the terms that women tend to think in and if you know anything about women and how they can look and think about these things, well, it makes sense – to other guys, anyway. I had to ask myself if I would prefer to date a guy and under the rules and conditions of dating and I have to say that would depend on how interesting in the guy I am and I’m of a mind that being in more of a relationship state with him would best suit my needs but, if not, sure – let’s go somewhere and make each other cum… and because we can. Am I opposed to sex on the first “date?” Nope. Do I require a guy to be into me? Nope. Looking for instant attraction/chemistry? Nope. You have a dick and one I wouldn’t object to or mind sucking and as long as you meet my very minimal requirements, I’m thinking we should be able to do this without overly complicating things but if they do get complicated like that, I’m not opposed to talking about it… but I’m never, ever, going to expect that all of this be in place before getting our dicks out because that’s a pretty good way to make sure that if it’s sex that you need, that ain’t gonna happen and not when it needs to happen… like right now would be good and if we have to go on three or four dates in order for you to figure out that by having sex with me, I’m not presenting a clear and present danger to your sensibilities, well, hmm – I’m not sure that I want to go through all of that and more so when it’s been something I’ve always had to go through with women.
I understand having to jump through all the hoops with the ladies. Doing it with guys? Not so much – yet… but I’m working on it.