I’m talking to my protege, who hit me up to tell me about the 22-year-old he was talking to and was going to have sex with and even hit me with a #cradlerobbing thingy while talking about how young this guy was but he also seemed to be quite mature.
I asked him what difference does it make if the guy’s 22… and should it make a difference? He correctly said that it doesn’t – and shouldn’t – make a difference but I could tell by his messages that he was… uncomfortable about having sex with a guy when he’s old enough to be the dude’s father which, um, didn’t stop them from having sex just the same.
Male bisexuality is rife with ageism. You have young male bisexuals looking for older men; you have older bisexuals looking for younger men (does that make them cougars?) and in between these two extremes, you have guys who are just funny about how old you are. The thing that gets me whenever my protege gets to talking about this is knowing that he prefers… older men and men who are my age over guys who are his age and younger.
I still remember a guy who was two years older than me rejecting me because I was two years younger. Yeah, preferences. I get it and by getting it, I saw how preferences can be quite the deterrent when one is looking for a guy to have sex with. Young guys – in the 18 to 25-or-so range – tend to get a bad rep for not being mature and there’s some truth to this but I know guys my age who lack maturity so is this really that big of a deal and like so many say it is? Is it not enough that a 22-year-old man is legally old enough to consent to sex and if he’s consenting to it, he must be mature enough to know what he’s getting himself into? Apparently not and I very much remember not getting respected for my maturity until I was like 35 or so and because it was presumed that even though I was 21, I lacked maturity… which I didn’t but this is eye of the beholder kind of stuff.
I understand how generational differences can impact things where commonality goes. Other than being on the hunt for dick, it’s nice and all that to have other things in common with the men you’re hunting or who are hunting you and it is “universally assumed” that, say, me being 66 and there’s some 20-year-old buck who’s interested in me – or me in him – that we have nothing in common and, oh, yeah, he’s a maturity risk… and conveniently forgetting that I used to be 20. Or is this really a thing of some folks not wanting to be bothered to find other commonalities that just might reveal that the 20-year-old is, indeed, mature and will behave like he’s got some sense?
I remember being 18 or 19 and talking to a 30-year-old who was insisting that (a) I was immature and (b) I had no idea what I was doing and totally overlooking the fact that (1) I was married and (2) raising my children and (3) what did any of that have to do with my ability to suck his dick and like we’d been talking about before he threw down the age discrimination card? He got surly when I reminded him that I’d been sucking dicks a lot longer than he had and as far as experience went, his two years of experience made him a rank rookie in my book.
It had me wondering which one of us really lacked a measure of maturity… and I was sure it wasn’t me. I’d get into my 30s and now I have a “target” on my back and there are 18-year-olds – and younger guys trying to make me believe they were 18 – who were either trying to convince me to bed them or telling me no because, to them, it would be like having sex with their father. To one such young buck, I pointed out to him that, yeah, I am old enough to be your father… but I’m not your father. If I thought there was something about you that I found not to my liking, we wouldn’t be talking about… anything.
But I know what’s up with that school of thought and I get it but the “I” word isn’t what’s going on here but, yeah, young guys get caught up in this and so do older guys and then there’s the “P” word that rides along and, okay, I understand it but one of the things about being mature is knowing some stuff and intelligently understanding that, yeah, I might be old enough to be your father… but unless you know something that I don’t, I’m not your daddy and you’re not one of my children but that doesn’t change the fact that you got my attention like this and not because I have children older than you are.
We get seriously weird about this and it’s not just a sexuality thing. You see a lot of bi guys preferring to be with guys their own age because of commonality more than an issue of maturity and that makes sense when it comes to being able to relate to someone who was born and grew up in the same “era” that you did even though that doesn’t really speak to that sense of compatibility as much as we think it does and should and that’s because we all grow up in different environments that influence us and can do so enough to make commonality a bit iffy and, okay, I get and understand that but it’s like I told a guy who was the same age as I was and he’s going on and on about us not being compatible, “You act like I want to be your boyfriend or marry you – I just want to have sex with you and you’re looking for someone to have sex with and I don’t know what would make us incompatible enough that we couldn’t do what we both said we wanted to do.”
Preferences. Everyone has them and usually a lot of them and usually based upon prior experiences and age is right up there as a very important preference and, indeed, one of my preferences is that you’re legally old enough to consent to have sex. Anything else is open to discussion so we can see what else we might have in common that would make having sex… less weird or whatever.
I reminded my protege that I was in my 40s and I had a 20-something lover… and he was amazing because he was an amazing guy. He had come to me about us doing something because he, at the least, had an idea of what he wanted to do sexually and, importantly, he trusted me not to get all “pervy” with him. We talked about this, and he proved to be mature because he understood what I was saying to him and mature enough to give me some grief when I tried to talk him out of it but I’d told him that he was an adult, so the final decision is his alone to make. He showed maturity in my eyes because he thought about it – and asked other questions – before making the decision to go for it. And he was mature enough to understand that this wasn’t about me or what I wanted to do, and I would be good no matter what he decided.
In my experiences, did that make him an exception? I didn’t think so and more so when just talking to him showed me that he was more mature than guys who were my age and we did have other things in common and as “simple” as the two of us liking the same music and other “mundane” things. He wasn’t the first 20-something I’d been involved with but, yeah, some I would encounter needed to grow up a bit and I didn’t mean age-wise; it was more like, okay, you’re an adult now and you need to get your head into an adult mode of thinking, not about sex so much but being as responsible in your thoughts and actions so that people my age won’t look at you like you’re young and stupid and immature.
And my understanding that a lot of the people who talk down to younger guys like this probably forgot that they used to be that age and especially whatever shit they had to go through because people who were much older than they were saw them as being young, immature, and incapable of making grown up decisions and, well, acting like they’re adults.
Hmm. I know that when I was in my 20s and guys in their 40s and older were trying to have their way with me weren’t all that concerned about my level of maturity but they sure were interested in my youthful sexual energy more than anything else. Some would say, “You’re very mature for a guy your age!” and it was all I could do not to get insulted because, yeah, I am mature and even when growing up, I was being told that I was too mature for my age and I needed to slow down and not grow up quickly when given all that was going on in my life, I had to grow up and be mature and my parents and grandparents pretty much insisted on it because I was the oldest child and grandchild and, yeah, that kind of peer pressure.
And the sex I was having with guys also played into that growing up and being mature process. That was me at 20… but not all 20-year-old were like me, but I wasn’t the only one. We assume some shit without “verifying” if our assumptions are correct. Like, it has always been assumed that children younger than 16 have no idea what sex is, how to do it, or how it can go wrong and… there’s often a lot of shock and surprise to find that, say, 11-year-old “Tommy” has been having sex with girls or, gasp, having sex with his male friends and has been for “a while.” This is one of those things I hear some guys say when they get into having sex around that age and insist that they didn’t know what they were doing… but they were doing it and even then, if they really didn’t know about sex, they were learning about it and they learned quickly.
One of the parts of the definition of maturity is experience and then being able to process decisions based upon experiences. Which makes sense but part of that definition is also about personality and, well, now we get into needing something for the headache that’s sure to show up because one’s personality is also based on that which they’ve experienced, what they’re learning, the environment in which they’re in, so on and so forth. It’s all in how you express and present yourself, how you are as a person as well as how your thought processes work out in your head and, yeah, how you interact with others and a lot of other headache-producing stuff.
Did the 22-year-old make a mature decision about (1) hitting on my protege, (2) wanting to have sex with him and, ultimately (3) having sex with him? I would say that he did, but I think that, in these things, we tend to expect others to be our idea of being mature and if they’re not behaving like we are, well, that’s a problem, isn’t it? A lack of maturity and all that stuff? And, again, conveniently forgetting that we used to be that age and there were people who looked at us as not being as mature as they believed themselves to be.
The next day, I sent my protege a one-word message: “And?” He responded and told me that, yes, they got into some heavy oral sex and, yes, it was good but he went on to say that the guy wasn’t much of a conversationalist and even thought because he was high on something – and I don’t know why he tends to assume this and I do get on him for doing this and more so when he can’t prove it and, well, he’s still a work in progress. At the end of the day, did this guy’s maturity or presumed lack thereof – and because of his age and the 20-plus-years difference between their ages – really matter when it came to them sucking each other off?
I would say no… and there are those who would disagree with me. I would say that the guy made a mature and grown-up decision in this and based on whatever his experiences influenced his decision-making processes. Yeah, some 20-somethings can be a pain in the ass but, then again, we expect those legal adults to behave like they have the same level of life experiences as, say, I do… and I don’t know how that can even work and simply because I’ve been alive longer and, as such, I’ve had a lot of experiences and experiences that aren’t all that related to having sex – but then again, I learned about this before I was a teenager but not everyone does but… that’s not really the point. We are all aware of the social stuff around differing ages. We don’t say… nice things about female cougars or, really, anyone who is perceived to be robbing the cradle, right? And, if you care to look at some history, cradle robbing was a thing because young girls could be fertile a lot longer than older women and younger guys, well, if nothing else, they had hormone-driven enthusiasm and stamina that older men might not have had a whole lot of us. Or young, dumb, and full of cum.
Like, one of the things that cropped up when I was growing up was someone asking how old you were and the answer was, “Old enough to fuck without getting stuck!” And, um, yeah, getting stuck kinda tended to happen sometimes but that’s not the point – but someone answering the “how old are you” question like this is the point. An immature response? Yeah, I’ll say that it was but what might get “missed” in this wise-cracking kind of answer is that the person saying it knew about fucking and, yeah, maybe some getting stuck in there happened to them and finding out how to get unstuck. Was it being immature on the whole? That depended on who you were talking to, but you can bet anything you care to that the adults around us would say that we were immature and just not grown up enough to responsibly have sex, let alone know anything about it but, I would think, totally overlooking the fact that having sex is an experience that very much plays into one’s experiences and personality and, as such, their idea of being mature but, in the eyes of someone much older, nah, they ain’t all that mature…
And like many of the adults learned about me, I was too mature for their liking, and I figured that, okay, if they’re telling me this and telling me not to be in a rush to grown up, maybe I’m more mature than I think I am. I may not have had a whole lot in the experience department, but I had experiences, and I was learning… stuff and stuff that, again, wasn’t related to having sex because one of the things that constantly got hammered into my head was that I had to learn how to be an adult and that meant doing certain things in a certain way as well as thinking in those certain ways because I wasn’t going to stay a child “forever.” That whole “this is what being a man means” stuff was… insidious and quite stressful being made to do “grown up stuff” when being on your way to growing up and being mature was something that you had “no choice” in.
All well and good. Like, one of the things I remember is being told not to get involved with someone who was more than five years older than I was and, as adults back then tended to do, they didn’t tell me why. Or don’t get involved with someone who was younger than I was; just stick to people your own age which, literally, I thought was somewhat hard to do because the guys and gals I was growing up with were either a year or more younger or older or days, months, weeks, whatever. Being warned to stay away from teenagers but, again, not being told why other than if you didn’t, you could get into a lot of trouble… and whatever that meant.
And… we carry stuff like this forward into adulthood. Remember the guy I told you about earlier who said that if we had sex, he felt it would be like having sex with his father? Well, he made both the adult and mature decision to go for it… and found out that, nope, definitely not your daddy and he comported himself in a very mature way… but I knew he would because his personality told me as much. I know he had “visions” of both the “I” and “P” words and I get it. But it wasn’t like that, and I would say that he became… more mature to understand the differences between predation and just being interesting – and old enough – to have sex with. As far as experience went, he most certainly knew how to suck a dick and with a great deal of skill – and a level of skill that I’ve sometimes not seen in people my age or older.
But it’s not about that. It’s about the perception that being too young or too old is a… problem. In actuality, it’s only a problem if (a) you believe it is and/or (b) it proves to be a problem. Do some younger folks not have “great emotional control” of themselves? Sure… and I’ve seen this in people my age and older so what, if anything, does this really mean? Any deficiencies in emotional control are seen as immaturity but for me to “expect” a 20-something to have the same emotional control that I had to learn to master is… kinda ridiculous and unrealistic. But that’s why, in this age-difference situation, you don’t assume anything, and you engage the younger person in conversation to see where their head is so that you can determine if they meet your idea of what being mature means. Or are they going to be cool, adult and mature about this or are they gonna be a major pain in your ass.
Maturity is defined. There’s a… standard of behavior involved that must be attained and is a part of growing up. We all have our own idea of what being mature means both for ourselves and for those around us and we all do not see this the exact same way. I know younger folks who have a more mature attitude about bisexuality than those who are much older than they are. There are times when my protege will tell me about “some young kid” hitting on him, and I’ll say something along the lines of okay – whatcha gonna do? And he’s assuming that the “young kid” is going to be a problem because he’s presumed to not be mature and, well, that’s something that always remains to be seen; that “young kid” has to prove that he’s mature but, then again, there’s his idea of this and then there’s my protege’s idea of this and the twain is having a problem meeting.
He’s asked me if that “young kid” was hitting on me, would I have sex with him? And I’ve said that I would and as long as he wasn’t my idea of an asshole. I know some young guys can behave in a way that no one would say they were being mature… but it’s presumptuous to assume that they’re all immature and by whatever standard we care to use to determine this.
And, yeah, you know I pointed out that he prefers men who are old enough to be his daddy. And he says, “Yeah, you’re right…” What’s the difference here? I would say that since having sex with someone twenty years younger than he is and thinking that there’s something wrong with that presents a certain lack of maturity all by itself and is quite hypocritical given his preference for older men… and like that 22-year-old may or may not have had but “simply” a matter of being mature enough to be able to make the decision that having sex with my boy was something he was very interested in and, apparently, he was.
I think this whole age thing is funny and, sometimes, not in a humorous way. Life experiences very much play into maturity but what can be unknown is what life experiences this 22-year-old may have had that made my protege deem him mature enough to have sex with but paying lip-service to the fact that some cradle robbing was about to happen. Methinks that if you’re a legal adult, your “cradle” days are over and done with. It gets down to some brass tacks. Like, okay; I’m 66 and there’s a 30-year-old that’s got my attention and in a sexual way. He’s clearly old enough to consent. Is he mature? That remains to be seen and, yeah, based on whatever metric I’m using to determine that and, no, don’t even think about asking me about it because I couldn’t tell you but there is a metric and one rooted in their personality and what and how they think about… stuff.
And it’s not like I want to marry the guy or we’re gonna have a relationship; I want to suck him off and he’s said that he’s very interested in the same thing. Okay. Satisfy my three requirements. What I know that some young buck doesn’t know is that a lot of men that I can come into contact with for sex cannot pass the third requirements: Don’t be my idea of an asshole and, yeah, that includes being immature about it in any way. Not having your head in a place that feels right to me, oh, like, those guys who are of a mind that making me their bitch is the way this is supposed to work or some guys, shit, some guys you can just tell that they’re going to be a problem just by the way the conversation is going. Maybe it’s immaturity or just the way they’re looking at stuff that isn’t the way I’m looking at it, but does that say or imply that I lack maturity?
It could because I know I can be… immature about some stuff because of my personality and “not being serious” all of the damned time and sometimes I’m not all deadly serious about something because… it’s stressful. Life is supposed to be fun and all that and maturity can be seen as knowing when to be serious and when it’s okay not to be serious… and I’m not always that damned serious about stuff but, then again, I’ve learned not to be as I’ve… matured. Hmm. I have a very mature way of looking at sex but if someone doesn’t look at it the “same way” I do, does that mean that they lack maturity and, as such, are unsuitable for sex? No, not really. That’s just me knowing some shit that they don’t know or have no reason or need to know because they’re comfortable with their own perspective and, yeah, being mature enough to have that perspective.
And there’s the reality that I mentioned in last night’s Thoughts: When you’re an adult, you are fair game until proven not to be. To be or not to be requires a level of maturity. Being able to make decisions based upon what which one has learned. Maturity and commonality really aren’t the same things, are they but being able to take note of things in common is a mature way to look at things. Like, I could run into a 20-year-old drummer and, right off the bat, we have something in common because I’m also a drummer. That has absolutely nothing to do with sex but as more points of commonality are being found, it could head in that direction… and not even. It’s all in how we relate to someone, and we all have our own idea of what this means and how it should work and a lot of other shit that, again, doesn’t have anything to do with having sex but maturity can be seen in how someone thinks about sex… and it’s no secret that we have a very immature way of looking at sex and even among people who are the same age or close enough for government work and even that depends on one’s experiences and how those experiences have influenced their personality as well as how they make decisions in these things.
Maybe me and that 20-year-old drummer find that we have bisexuality in common. Doesn’t mean we’re now gonna hop into the sack because from where I’m sitting – and if that even crossed my mind – he still has to be able to pass that third criteria: Not being my idea of an asshole. We tend to equate immaturity with being clueless when there’s a “great” difference in age but what’s really going on is that the younger person doesn’t have the life experiences someone that much older than they are has… but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the older person is “more mature” but could be simply by comparison but that’s a mistake we all tend to make until we learn differently – and we’re mature enough to accept that, hey, that young kid really does have their head screwed on right! Or they don’t and according to how we look at such things.
My boy had sex with the “kid.” They had fun doing what they wanted to do. No harm was caused, and no danger was perceived or manifested itself. My protege deemed him to be very mature “for his age” and, well, that. What determines the age when someone is deemed to be mature? Sixteen? Eighteen? Thirty-seven? Can I legitimately say that someone twenty or thirty years younger than I am aren’t as mature as I am? Well, that remains to be seen. Immaturity, I think, cannot be assumed and as we tend to do and, yeah, I made this mistake a couple of times… and was mature enough to realize that I’d made a mistake and then mature enough to correct it.
I’m ten years old and adults are telling me that I’m too mature for my age and I have no idea what they’re talking about because I’m just being… myself. I was a really smart kid and I knew… stuff and a lot of stuff because – and get this – because I was encouraged to read. Encouraged to ask questions about something I didn’t know except, um, there were a lot of questions that those I’d ask weren’t of a mind to provide an answer to, but I knew I could find them, and I did and did that play into adults thinking that I was too mature for my age? Probably. And the stuff I was learning influenced my personality. Made me experience stuff in the learning of things and not just about sex but that, too, played into my being “too mature for my age” but I didn’t figure that one out until I was much older and, yeah, being able to do that speaks to a level of maturity… doesn’t it?
It’s not about what you know or don’t know as it is how you carry yourself as a person and in a lot of differing aspects and, yeah, sex is one of them. Why would I assume that a 20-year-old doesn’t know anything about having sex with men when I knew about it way before I was a 20-year-old myself? Is that a maturity thing… or just a matter of things learned via experience or other ways. Or maybe how I… present myself because of the life experiences gained and how I process it so that I can make decisions – and make them in the way my elders expected and demanded I be able to do?
So much sighing. I admit that my protege makes me get that look on my face when he gets to talking about maturity in someone and no matter if they’re younger or older than he is. I’m not saying that maturity has no meaning in the grand scheme of things but I often question the way we look at this because, again, I know a lot of young people who are a more mature than people I know who my age are and older. There’s maturity and then there’s naivety and that’s a whole different thing and I know people who are both mature and naive about some stuff… but that’s to be expected because we all don’t learn the same things in the same way and if we learn – or even know – about them.
It’s just that when one becomes a legal adult and, really, before that landmark moment, we are expected to have, maintain, and display a level of maturity as we grow up. Some do and some, well, let’s say that they skipped that class or weren’t paying attention or that’s just not the way they are as a person and as far as they’re concerned, they are, in fact, mature and even if someone else doesn’t think and, importantly, cannot prove that we’re not up to the social and even psychological standards of being mature.
Hmm. How mature do you have to be to want to suck a guy’s dick? Or to have sex, period? I know that a lot of people didn’t deem me to be mature until I was 35 but prior to this? I was just a “kid” who didn’t know anything and deemed to be immature. How insulting! And then… how to you prove that you’re as mature as you believe yourself to be? Is it what you do… or is it what you know about whatever you’re doing?
I don’t know. Well, maybe I do and it’s one of those eyes of the beholder things because my experiences have all too often shown that someone way younger than myself can be quite mature and someone way older than I am? Eh, not so much. And if it’s just and only about having sex, does maturity really make that much of a difference when there’s a big difference in age? Yeah, it seems to make one and that’s probably just the way it is because it’s the way it’s always been and as far as I know. It’s not about what I prefer but, just for myself, having the maturity to understand that having a long laundry list of preferences may or may not get me what I want and when it’s sex that I want and understanding that anything more than that is… gravy and the gravy comes with finding and establishing plots of common ground upon which we can both stand upon – and being mature enough to know that we can and should do this and even if that’s just the two of us maturely deciding to go somewhere and slaking our respective lusts upon each other.
Because being older or younger doesn’t always equate to being mature. It’s what you think; it’s how you behave; it’s what you do and even what you don’t or won’t do. It’s how you go about… being the person you are, and we all don’t behave as expected by social standards or even the psychological ones… because we all don’t “human” the same way. Like I read or heard it said, if we were all the same, that would be pretty boring. Some folks are more mature than others. Duh. It’s something that we learn and it’s a goal that we are expected to reach. Some of us reach it before it’s expected and… some of us are way past that point and, according to standards, never really behave as mature adults.
Welcome to what it means to be human and this thing we call life. That 22-year-old guy “obviously” thought that he was mature enough to hit on my protege for the sex he wanted to experience with him and, yeah, maybe “just because” my protege happened to be old enough to be his daddy and even under the premises that experience leads to more maturity.
Hmm. We discriminate because of age. We cite a presumed lack of maturity because of their age and, well, we just do this when maybe we shouldn’t. I had to learn not to be this way… and wasn’t that mature of me? Hmm.