Today’s Bisexual Thoughts: Bisexuality and the Swinging Lifestyle

Larry Archer, in his comments on TBT:  Wandering Thoughts, said, “In the Lifestyle (at least the one I know), a big percentage of the women go both ways but just a few of the guys. You don’t see many openly gay or bi guys at a house party and I don’t know why that is. A lot of the time it’s when the cuck hubby has to clean up after his Hotwife.”

One of the other reasons why I started blogging was because of this attitude in the swinging lifestyle and how incongruous it sounded for a sexual activity that sounds like a good way for people from all walks of life to step away from “traditional sex” and let loose their inner freak and with people who are of the same mind.

But as many who look into this tend to discover, the lifestyle isn’t as open- and/or like-minded as the premise appears to be; there is a lot of discrimination that takes place that, bluntly, is appalling, and in a lifestyle that’s allegedly about being honest and truthful, well, there’s not a lot of that really going on and bisexual men are considered to be the boogie men of the swinging lifestyle.

Oh, there are bisexual men in the lifestyle but it’s rare that you see a site profile where a bi guy says that he is and, if he does, well, that’s not always a good thing.

Part of my reply to Larry’s comment was, “It’s the stigma, Larry; there are a lot of bi guys in the lifestyle who face being blackballed and kicked to the curb because they’re bi; they’re asked and demanded to keep their bi urges to themselves and as if male bisexuality isn’t a part of the whole sexual scene.”

Unless things have changed, a bisexual woman is welcomed into the lifestyle with open arms while bisexual men aren’t always so welcome.  On the various site forums, good Lord, I’d seen so many discussions against bisexual men that, frankly, spit in the face of what a lot of people say the lifestyle is all about – uninhibited sex and in many forms, from couples getting with another couple to parties that can be seen as all-out orgies.

But bisexual men were usually asked or demanded to not act like a bisexual man.  In particular, straight guys would get on the forums and rant and rave about not wanting to be naked with a guy who, according to them, is going to suddenly “attack” them during sex and as if a bi guy really and truly cannot keep his hand to himself should the other guy not be so bi friendly.

It is true that some participants are, indeed, bi friendly, but the angst against bi men is so great that should a couple with a bi guy want to jump into the lifestyle, they usually find it best to not let it be known on their profile that hubby is bisexual.

And I’d say that the final slap in the face is that the overall mindset of the lifestyle is that when you get rejected by another couple, don’t take it personally… and I’ve always wondered how one could not take it personally when they tell you that they’d have sex with your female partner… but not with you and because you’re bisexual.

Cuckolding is a thing now and, at least in my opinion, a far departure from what this meant before it became a thing – and it wasn’t considered a good thing.  As Larry said, if some cuck is “ordered” to lick his wife’s spermy pussy after the other guy has creamed it up – or, as I once heard, “sucking dick by proxy,” well, there are not many who are into this thing who wouldn’t see that as being unusual and probably wouldn’t think that eating another man’s sperm out of a woman’s cunt was all that bisexual.

I used to sit and read forum stuff about bisexuals that, again, was just appalling, like the assumption that if a bi guy is in the mix, catching an STD from him was pretty much a given.  Some would do what I’d call whistling in the dark and say, on the one hand, they don’t have anything against bisexual men and in the same breath – and on the other hand – they’d prefer not to be anywhere near a bisexual man and something innocent like incidental contact between the guys, well, some dudes didn’t have a sense of humor about being in contact with another man and if the other guy was bi, oh, hell no.

Because of shit like this and as I mentioned, a lot of bi guys would lie on their profile and say that they’re straight… but as I recall, the only thing lifestyle members “hated” more than bi guys were liars… but given how bisexual men tend to be discriminated against, the only choice they had – and if he and his partner was gonna be able to get out there and swing – was to lie about his sexuality.

Things may have changed since the last time I bothered to check but Larry’s comment indicates to me that, nope, not a whole lot has changed where bisexual men and swinging are concerned and I have no reason to disagree with what he said.  When I first read his comment, one of the thoughts I had was, “Yeah… the only thing worse than a bisexual man in the lifestyle was a single guy…”  Yet, single men are often all up in the mix despite the overall thought that if some guy shows up at a swinging party and he didn’t bring any pussy to share with the others, well, that greedy asshole shouldn’t bother to show up.  Larry might know this better than I do right now but there was a time when single guys and bisexual guys were charged double for parties where a fee to participate was required.

For a sexual lifestyle that hypes up open and unfettered sex, the hidden message is that this is true if you’re straight and for bisexual men, well, you don’t have to leave but you can’t stay here.

That straight guys believed that a bi guy in the mix was guaranteed to lose control of himself and pounce on the straight guy’s cock – and uninvited – was – and still is to me – patently ridiculous and to the point where many of them insisted that things that might happen in the heat of the moment shouldn’t ever happen.   I’d see guys going off about this and I’d be incredulous and really dismayed at such a juvenile and, frankly, ignorant perception and the thing that really irked me – and other bisexual men – was the air of arrogance displayed by some folks and like their being straight made them so much more superior than a bisexual man… and I couldn’t get my head around that given that, um, a bisexual man kinda/sorta obviously knows more about sex than the average straight dude.

This kind of discrimination is responsible for a lot of couples who want to swing becoming very disillusioned about getting into the lifestyle and male sexuality is just one of the many prejudices that can be seen, from body type to age and even race.  Why are bisexual men so shunned in the lifestyle?

It’s because to many, “bisexual” means “homosexual” and, as I’ve been saying, some people just forget – and, perhaps, conveniently so – that bisexual men like women and pussy… and more than they like men and dick.

It’s not that there are some bi guys in a couple who aren’t seriously active in the lifestyle because there are… it’s the overall mindset of the lifestyle that makes Larry ask the question he did.  This might even sound like sour grapes but I’d ask you to believe me when I tell you that it isn’t – it’s what I’ve seen and heard and even experienced in the lifestyle and I have no reason to bullshit you about any of it.

Swinging can be a lot of fun and to share sex with other people is a bold way to express one’s desire for more sex that being monogamous allows; I’m just the guy who’ll tell you some of the shit you might come across and that being in the lifestyle isn’t as open as you might think it is.

 

What Started Me Blogging

I had to go back and edit “Group Sex Thoughts” because I missed some boo-boos and it got me thinking about why I started blogging in the first place.  Linda and I belong to a couple of swinging websites and this one site had a forum that I found interesting enough to interact with many of the people there expressing their opinions about the lifestyle and it didn’t take me long to (a) become a popular contributor and (b) piss a lot of people off because I challenged everything they knew about  sex.  Then, one of the friends I met on this site, my girl Cinnamon, was sharing her blog with the site members and, damn, I thought that was so cool to be able to do this so I asked her about it and I wound up here on WordPress five years ago and I was off and running… um, typing.

Some of the really early stuff I was ranting, raving, and pontificating on was the hypocrisy of the swinging lifestyle and how there’s always this group of “elite” motherfuckers who feel that other swingers have to bow down to their often incorrect view of group sex and, well, even in the forums, I’d go off on them and while I made some friends by daring to slap those elite motherfuckers in the face, I also made a lot of enemies because I had the nerve not only to call them on the carpet for their very narrow mindset but to put their hypocrisy on blast for all to see.

These elitist bastards and the drones they have following behind them and French kissing their asses have managed to take the words “open-minded” and “like-minded” and put such a spin on them that they don’t mean what you think they mean and the short version of their hypocritical mindset is, “If you don’t wanna do it the way we say it should be done, you’re the punk-assed bitch and not us.”  You wanna see discrimination in action?  Go to a swinging site and, if they have open forums, just sit and read what’s being said.

One of the things that really irked me was that they’d harp on the rules of swinging… and then act as if the rules never applied to them; if you were of the “wrong” ethnicity and the “wrong” sexual orientation, my God, the way they behaved about this was deplorable.  One of the other things I’d often rip them about is the “rule” about liars and the only things worst than a liar in the lifestyle were a single guy and any bisexual guy; yet, it was okay for some of these elitist assholes to blatantly lie about their sexuality or, really, tell another couple any lie they could think of so that sex would happen.  It was okay for them to behave so badly but wrong for anyone else to do the same thing… and doubly wrong if you had the nerve to call them on it.

Like yours truly.  Cinnamon would just shred them about their elitist behavior and wouldn’t back down from anyone – and I so admired her for  that and, yeah, she was right, too.  At some point, between me and Cinnamon tearing those elitist bastards a new asshole, she got banned from the site and I got warned and threatened with being banned… and for telling the truth and exposing a behavior in group sex we found just heinous, pompous, discriminating in every way imaginable and, of course, hypocritical.

A lot of swinging newbies would join the site and be treated so badly because, sure, one of the rules of swinging is that if you get rejected – and you will – don’t take it personally and I ‘d be like, “Say what?  How could you not take it personally?” but, of course, if you rejected them or weren’t willing to give up what you wanted out of an encounter in favor of what they wanted – oh, yeah, and if you didn’t give it up to them without any additional conversation, well, you were just plain wrong and you’d be told to get off the site and get out of the lifestyle altogether.  It was okay for them to discriminate or to treat people any way they wanted to… but if you did it to  them, oh, lawdy, they’d get on the forums and put you on blast in a heartbeat.

The thing that would fuck with me was those elite motherfuckers who touted their sexuality discrimination, i.e., if you were a bi guy, the only thing lower than you were was a single guy.  They’d spread their biphobic and homophobic mindset like a plague and the fucked up things about it were (a) they didn’t know what the fuck they were talking about and (b) some of those hypocrite were secretly bisexual themselves and, you just gotta know that I would tear into them with much glee and when they tried to come back and get all nasty about how they’re right and I’m not, what they never realized was that I was exposing their negative mindset for all to see.  It just made me nuts to see people riffing about bi guys and how fucking horrible we are and how we shouldn’t be in their straight lifestyle – but they’d also categorically deny that they were discriminating against anyone; in their minds, their preferences for anything were more important than anyone else’s preferences.  I could never figure out how someone who would never be bisexual could tell me, of all people, about being bisexual and more so since I was bisexual before a lot of  them were born.

They’d use their prejudices like a weapon and just beat down anyone who wanted to be in the lifestyle for the diversity of the sex as well as the diversity of the people.  If you weren’t physically fit and perfect, you were just shit on the bottom of their shoe – but they’d also swear that they weren’t looking for “Ken and Barbie” in the same sentence.  There’s discrimination against sexuality, race, age, body type and condition – and the elitist assholes would stand by their right to be prejudiced against any who wasn’t like them… like they were all perfect… and some of them I wouldn’t fuck with my worst enemy’s dick.

These folks could take the joy of sex/group sex and just fuck it all up – and never in a good way.  You kinda know that some people just behave badly when it comes to sex but if you wanted to get an idea of how badly they can behave, try getting into the lifestyle (or any aspect of it) and see what happens.  You’d get to see just how shitty men can act when it comes to getting some other guy’s wife; they will lie like rugs, disrespect her man, and do the one thing I know women just can’t stand:  Treat her like a mere piece of ass.  There are other horror stories and, sadly, they’re all true like those guys who’d show up at a group sex gathering and assume that every woman there is his for the taking and without anyone’s permission and if you reject them, well, all holy hell would break out and, sometimes, violence would ensue.

Women, well, a lot of them were really victims more than willing participants, having been conscripted into the lifestyle pretty much against their will by their man who has a very bad case of pussy-on-the-brain.  I’ve seen these guys use their women as bait and throw them into situations they’re ill-prepared to deal with – and then leave them to fend for themselves.  I’ve seen women just take to the lifestyle like a fish to water, only to get their asses handed to them because they’re having more fun than their men are; likewise, I’ve seen women just wind up being traumatized just being there, let alone because some uncaring, lust-crazed motherfuckers – men and women – tried to get them to do something they just weren’t up to the task of doing.

Bisexual women are still highly prized and what I call the “Mandingo Syndrome” is in effect; it’s either that BBC (big black cock) nonsense or the lust for Black women can be so prevalent that some motherfuckers will actually insist that a Black man (and his big dick) stay away – but it’s okay if he leaves his Black woman for them to ravish as they please.

Now as I said yesterday, group sex – threesomes, foursomes, moresomes – can be one hell of a good experience… but you gotta be prepared to deal with a mindset that, I think, only serves to devalue people more than it encourages them to broaden their sexual horizons.  I think about Ann’s experience and what she wrote about being left unprotected when she needed it… and it pissed me off that this happened to her… but it’s also what I’d call typical behavior by many in this situation.  If you show up at one of these… parties and think that you’re walking into a free-for-all kind of thing, guess again; if you think that you’re gonna show up and everyone’s just gonna automatically respect your boundaries, I’d ask you to rethink this one.  And, really, if you think that people can be damned funny about sex and how they approach it, you just have no idea how funny they can be until you get into a group sex situation with some motherfuckers.  If you think that those in attendance is going to care about your feelings and/or they’re supposed to, um, I’m here to tell you that you’re gonna probably wind up terribly disillusioned because there are a bunch of elitist sons of bitches who have, somehow and for some reason I don’t pretend to understand, taken the thrill and joy of uninhibited group sex and have turned it into one’s worst fucking nightmares.

People have asked me about group sex stuff and I’ll tell them what I think is damned good about it… but I’ll also tell them what’s very bad about it and, no, I don’t sugar-coat it or try to be PC about it because when it comes to sex, some people just behave very badly because they feel they have the right to behave badly and to disrespect anyone who doesn’t conform to their way of doing things in this… and this is just sad to see… but if you don’t learn anything from a group sex experience, you will find out things about sex and how people can behave that you’ve never seen before and, honestly, I’m not surprised that there are so many people who’d never have this experience and many more who do want to experience it… then see human behavior at its worst when it comes to sex.

Can you get into one of these situations and have every fantasy you ever had come true?  Yep, you betcha!  Can you have your comfort zones expanded?  Uh-huh, ya sure can!  Can you learn some shit about yourself that you might not have been aware of before?  Oh, hell, yeah you can!  Can you have nearly unimaginable fun in a group sex situation?  Does a bear shit in the woods?  Can you have your perceptions about sex expanded or changed?  Yeah… but, trust me, you’re gonna learn all the bad shit, too; you’ll encounter those elitist motherfuckers whose views on sex and group sex can turn this mind-blowing experience into an “us versus them” war that can be so fucking ugly.

Just saying.  Not everyone who’s happily into group sex is a narrow-minded and prejudiced elitist; you can meet and have sex with some pretty amazing people… but as Ann learned, you can also meet some pretty fucked up individuals, too.  They say it’s just sex and some of them make it a point to dehumanize having sex like the feelings of those they’d fuck don’t matter – it’s either their way or no way.  They say none of it is personal… and I’ve consistently failed to understand how fucking someone isn’t personal; even when I’ve had them explain this to me, I admit that it just doesn’t make sense because sex, even casual sex, is personal… but  the elitists will tell you in no uncertain terms that it isn’t, that they have no responsibility to give a shit about you as a person – you’re just a means to their end and nothing more.

And I’m the guy who’ll warn you to avoid these elitist assholes if at all possible; they give group sex a very bad name and reputation,  if ya ask me (and you didn’t).  Ann said to me, in her comment to yesterday’s blog, that she wished that I had written it before she had her experience and, damn, I feel as if I need to apologize to her and as if I somehow let her down but, Ann, in the future, if you have a question, you can ask me or you can even ask Larry (yeah, Larry, I just volunteered you, dude).  I think these motherfuckers bother me so much because even in a group sex situation, I just give a fuck about people and, as the elitists have told me, I care too much and that I shouldn’t care about anything other than getting the sex I want and by any means necessary.

But because I do care, yeah, I will expose the hypocritical elites who believe that they own group sex and that they can make it in their image and speak out against the many prejudices and acts of discrimination they employ against anyone who isn’t like them.

 

What Went Wrong?

For my followers who may not be following Mrs. Fever, you should go read this blog she wrote and, once you get there, follow the link she provided and do a little reading so you’ll better understand what I’m about to start ranting about:  http://mrsfever.wordpress.com/2013/09/10/rsex/

Depending on how you look at what I hope you took the time to read, it’s either really fucking sad… or a typical mistake along with a classic reaction to what happens when you (a) let booze do your thinking for you and (b) think that having a foursome is an easy thing to do.

Look, if you and your partner have it in your mind that you wanna expand a few things in your relationship along sexual lines, you can come look at the blogs I’ve written about it (look for the “Swinging” tag if that helps) and then see why doing this could be a wonderful thing to do… or the biggest fucking mistake you’ll ever make in your life.

When you read the linked article in Mrs. Fever’s blog, you can see every mistake that was made from beginning to end.  Sure, the author of that article mentions that he and his wife were thinking about branching out but one can assume – and thanks to how things happened – that they didn’t really and seriously talk and think about doing this.  They get drunk – which is a fucked up state of mind to be making a snap decision on something like this, wound up getting jiggy with the other couple, the wife had herself a good time, and her hubby, who wrote the blog/article, was, in a word, devastated because she was having a ball… and he had… issues and to the point where he not only got assed out physically but emotionally as well; his strong negative emotions put him on the “Player Unable to Perform” list.

Of course, I’ve seen and heard this one too many times for my liking; to answer the question that’s also the title of this blog – well, an answer from my point of view – is what went wrong was a failure to communicate and then letting alcohol grease the way to some very errant thinking.  I know when I read it, I could easily spot the places where the husband could have kicked the whole idea to the curb until (a) they were sober and (b) then able to discuss things fully.  See, I’m not saying that impromptu foursomes just can’t drop into your laps out of the blue; it doesn’t happen that often but it does happen and, hopefully, if one does pay you a visit, you and your partner would have (a) already talked about this and in great depth and detail or (b) the two of you have your shit so much together that this won’t turn into a couple’s worst nightmare.

I asked myself if I felt sorry for the guy this happened to… and I did… and I didn’t; I did realize, though, that my lack of sympathy for him was stemming from the fact that I wouldn’t have made the mistakes that he made in this.  Yeah, not really all that objective of me but that how I felt about what went down as he related it.  I also realized that I did feel… something for his plight because I know that shit can happen to even the most experienced swingers or cool-assed couples who find themselves faced with a swinging situation.

Jeez, I don’t know how many times I’ve written this but, fellas, if you think it’s easy for you to watch your woman getting fucked by some other dude, I beg you to please guess again!  If you think this is something you can deal with but then find out, in the moment of truth, that you can’t handle it, then by all means:  Tell the other people no.  Yeah, they might get pissed but it’s better that they get miffed ’cause you dissed them than it is to go through the emotional turmoil this guy did and, yeah, that his wife totally enjoyed herself didn’t make him feel any better.

Another kick in the head, from my POV, is the wife telling him, after all this was said and done – that if he could handle it, she’d like to do it again.  Let’s see, honey, I couldn’t handle it when it happened last night – what makes you think that I could handle some shit like that again?

I’ve got to go back to that piece and see if any new comments are there from the guy who wrote it to see how badly their relationship got whacked, if it did at all.  You just never, ever, let booze make such decisions for you…

 

At the Mercy of Others

I’ve been chatting with Pyx about AFF and CL and, really, just how totally fucked up AFF is; those of you who have ever checked out this site knows what I’m talking about.  You’ve already made the big leap from being totally monogamous to opening things up in your relationship, do what a lot of people new to this do and join AFF… and then find out that it wasn’t such a good idea or smart investment of your money if you paid to be a premium member.  To that end, paying that fee just opens you up further to be at the mercy of others and their not-so like-minded thinking.

The first indication that the shit on this site is funky begins with your profile picture.  We had a non-nude picture of us as our primary pic… and weren’t even getting a passing look.  On a whim, I put a kinda nude picture of my lady on there – and the hits just exploded and, oh, yeah, despite what our profile said about what we wanted, we were getting hits from people who just weren’t into what we were into and some of them had the audacity to suggest that if we didn’t want to do shit the way they wanted to do it – read this as have their way with my baby’s rather luscious body – then we were all fucked up, clueless and was even told we had no business being in the lifestyle.

Say what?  Wait, what happened to being open- and like-minded?  Hold up… when your profile said that you were down for anything and that you were wild and kinky, um, were you lying about that?  Oh, so, you want to play with us but you’re not sure if your wife will want to play?  If that’s the case, why are you talking to us?

The questions could continue unabated on why people behave the way they do when it comes to sex and being on AFF and similar sites.  You learn a lot of things rather quickly and what you manage to learn often isn’t very pretty and can be rather distasteful, revealing prejudices that one would think that sex, one of the universal languages, could easily overcome.

So if you went into being open or swinging and had the thought in your head that joining AFF (or some other site) would open the doors to sexual nirvana for you, uh, guess again.  I’m not gonna say that you won’t find what you’re looking for because people are rather successful on AFF… but what I am saying is that chances are good you’re gonna find a lot of shit that you weren’t even looking for and even get requests for sex in ways that would make a porn star shudder.

Like the one ‘couple’ that contacted us on AFF and said that they’d be willing to do whatever we wanted them to do… as long as my baby gave the man a golden shower.  Uh… okay…  So when we stopped laughing and told them there was no way we were going to do that – did you not see the part in our profile that said no watersports? – then we were deemed too ignorant of the needs of others and, thus, unworthy to fuck.

Your needs?  What about our needs?  Ye gods, one wouldn’t think that this question would ever come up, right?  But, more often than not, it does because one of the other things you learn is that being on a swinging site ain’t about your needs and no matter how clearly you state them:  This is about everyone else’s needs and if you can’t, won’t, or are otherwise unwilling to play the game their way, then you ain’t shit and never will be.

After messing around with some of the idiots on AFF and other sites, it’s no wonder that couples who want to swing take a big step back and opt for swinging celibacy, willing to just sit, wait, and watch for that one elusive couple who will want what they want and the way they want it.  One of the things I noticed on the various sites we belong to is that you are often expected and required to do some version of taking one for the team, something that swingers generally aren’t fond of doing.  Even in real life, having sex with your partner is about compromise, figuring out that list of things you’ll both do and won’t do for whatever reason… and what you find out is that if you had it in your head that jumping into the deep end of being non-monogamous was going to be easy, yeah, sure it is… because you’re now in a situation where you may have to compromise and negotiate for sex when you’re really not of a mind to do so.

AFF, in my opinion, is the worst of the many sites and if anyone’s ever joined AFF and they don’t have their own horror stories to tell, I’d be surprised.  AFF would have you pay a premium price so that you can get your feelings hurt, be offended, be summarily rejected, ridiculed, and just flat-out dissed; shit, if that’s your cup of tea, you can probably go to your next family reunion barbeque and have all that happen – and for free, at that.

You can join these sites and be as aggressive in your pursuit of whatever’s floating both of your boats… and you’re still pretty much at the mercy of others because if you can’t get them to agree with what you’re proposing, that aggressive pursuit’s not really working for you all that well.  I think it’s sad to actually see how totally fucked up people can be when it comes to sex and in a lifestyle that’ll make you think that everything’s wide open, free-spirited, unfettered, and unadulterated sexual pleasure – and the reality says that it’s anything but which, of course, is why so many newbies get totally discouraged and give up their goals and dreams of an enriching and liberating non-monogamous relationship.

 

Shh! Don’t Tell Anyone, But…

I was reading Harukifan’s latest blog (http://swinglifestyleblog.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/4-of-our-biggest-hesitations-about-the-swinger-lifestyle/) and the one thing that stuck out in my mind was his first question, “Will our friends be horrified?”

Let me say a few things about discretion in the lifestyle and how everyone – well, pretty much everyone – demands it while doing some things that, at least in my opinion, negate the need for secrecy, like joining a swingers website, for instance.

Okay, it’s understood that if some other people found out what you and your partner do on the weekends (or whenever you play), there could be some fallout because your morals can come under review by folks who can really fuck your whole life up or, at the least, make your lives miserable, like an employer, family, members of your church if you attend, etc..  So the need to keep yourselves under the radar is necessary for some people when they want to play in the pool with the big kids, right?

I’ve seen many profiles that state that discretion is a must… except, um, they’ve said this in their profile, the one with pictures in it that could identify them even if they went through the trouble to block out their faces.  Uh… there are other ways to identify you from your pictures and if you didn’t know that, now you do.  That you’re trying to interact with other people on the site kinda throws discretion out the window because, duh, if you weren’t a swinger, you wouldn’t be on the site would you?

The thing that I learned will give your secret away are all the things you try to do to protect it.  Again, an observant person can notice patterns of behavior and easily guess that, hmm, they’re up to something and then it’s just a process of elimination to figure out what that something is.   Changes in your normal routine can be noticed, like, before you started swinging, you rarely went anywhere other than to work, the store, normal-type stuff… but now you’re ‘suddenly’ going away for the weekend a lot or that it’s gotten out that you and your partner are going to a resort in Jamaica but you’ve never, ever said anything prior about wanting to go there.  Or, you have a ‘sudden’ increase in the number of people visiting your home or even spending the weekend or that you’re having more parties than usual.

If you think your neighbors don’t notice this stuff, guess again, okay?  It’s not like they can’t or don’t see you loading up the car when you’re sneaking off to meet someone on neutral territory, you know.  And then, you might be smart enough to do your dirt somewhere neutral… but you can never really know who you might run into or, even worse, who might see you checking in to the no-tell motel and you didn’t see them.  Much worse are the people who might know you… but you don’t know them because they’re a friend of a friend.

Or, if you’re normally friendly and talk to your neighbors about stuff – but now you’re being kinda secretive about things, the observant (or nosy) neighbor has now got that seed implanted in their minds that something’s going on that you don’t want them to know.  This is also true for your now-vanilla friends; it’s not that you’d outrightly lie to them but it’s what you don’t say to them that might arouse their suspicions.

Got kids?  If you start spending a lot of time leaving them with the sitter or with their grandparents (if they’re not old enough to stay at home unsupervised, that is) they’re gonna wonder what the hell is going on and they will ask questions that you’re gonna be dodging and all I’m saying here is don’t assume that your kids ain’t smart enough to put two and two together and those jokers have been known to eavesdrop on your conversations, too.

Discreet, right?  And you probably wouldn’t know that the couple who lives two doors down from you are also swingers… and they’re on the same site you’re on so how long do you think it’ll take for them to run across your profile and especially when they search for other couples close to them?

Swingers fear being outed and that’s understandable if not kinda odd because you’ve opened up your relationships so that you can be a part of a lifestyle that’s kinda wide open… and you’re still trying to do your level best to not only keep your swinging secret under wraps but hiding the fact that you’re having sex in the first place… like no one is ever gonna figure it out.

Even when swingers are communicating with other swingers, the less information given out, the better… except that tends to make some folks suspicious because you’re not forthcoming about stuff; I know a few swingers whose profiles say that they live somewhere other than where they actually live and, in the swinging community, there’s a big difference between being discreet and lying like a rug.

The question I ask those folks who are quite anal about being discreet is that if they are that worried about someone finding out what they’re doing, why are they in the lifestyle to begin with?  What, do they show up at a meet and greet wearing masks to protect their identities?  Do they employ counter-surveillance techniques when they’re on their way to the club or party or the hotel?

Yeah, when you’re sitting down with each other and talking about whether doing this is a good thing or not, you have to address the question of someone – or a lot of someones – learning your secret and what consequences, if any, will you have to deal with because of your actions.  I mean, you go out and play and trust that the people you’re playing with isn’t going to say anything… but can you be 100% positive that they won’t unintentionally out you?  A lot of swingers say that they never kiss and tell… and that’s a lie and you can see that on the forums… but is swingers talking to other swingers about swinging – and the people they’ve played with – being indiscreet?  If you have any validations, you know, those things that say to folks who view your profile that you are for-real, um, doesn’t that say that there are some people who know what you’re into… and even if you’ve never actually slept with them?  And, of course, the more validations you have, the more people know about your little secret, right?

Hmm.  I’m not saying that the people who have much to lose if they get found out don’t have cause to worry and that they shouldn’t protect themselves in this – I’m just pointing out some stuff that I’ve noticed over the years that discretion-loving people do that can give them away – and all because you’re trying hard to cover it all up.

 

Either-Or

This is one of my pet peeves when talking to some folks about being bisexual and, yes, I’m still talking about this!  I was doing my author thing on Cinnamon’s swinging advice site and I was reminded of this peeve and got inspired to write this.  Okay, we’ve been through the whole “Bisexuals Exist!” thing, which was good for a laugh if nothing else, but there’s this general perception that bugs the shit out of me:  People who are not bisexual think that being bi is an either/or thing for us.  I got the thought that the reason for this is some attempt to stuff us into the straight or gay boxes and overlooking the obvious… that we like, in one form or another, both sexes.

It’s not either/or – it’s both.  It implies that we should – not could, mind you – do one thing or the other and that our capacity and ability to want and/or do both is discounted.  I see this a lot when talking to other swingers, especially those straight folks who want a crack at us and assume that because we’re both bisexual, it’s an either/or type of thing for us or, “Since you’re bi, that means you can go either way, right?”

Yes… and no.  In this, we get peeved because they seem to ignore the statement in our profile that we want to do both and it was put there to avoid any, uh, confusion about what we want to do and how we want to do it.  But I’ve also seen this outside the lifestyle as well and I can’t help but think that this is some unconscious attempt to, again, put bisexuals in one box or the other and keep us there.

I’m sure that the practicing bisexuals out there have heard this many times:  “Do you prefer men or women?”  I hear it a lot and my answer is always, “Yes.”  I also love the look on their faces when I answer like that, by the way.  Even in asking that question, that’s an either/or kind of thing and, again, suggesting that we have to have a singular preference and totally ignoring the fact that we can go both ways.

I’ve heard questions like, “If you had a choice between a man and a woman, which one would you take first?”  Again, it’s limiting; it’s “forcing” a choice between one box or the other.  My answer usually is, “That depends on how I’m feeling at the moment.”  I will further baffle them by saying, “I might go for the woman first… but I wouldn’t say no to the dick!”  And, yes, I’ve been known to reverse that answer only because it’s true and sticks to my original, default answer to this:  Depends on how I’m feeling.

It’s not men or women… it’s men and women – it’s inclusive.  I used to ask myself why some people didn’t understand this but then I kinda figured it out and instead of getting angry, it does make me roll my eyes and even laugh because they don’t get the distinction here.  Instead of us dealing with sexual doors that only open one way, ours is more like a revolving door, to put it like that.

To the budding bisexuals out there, my advice to you (if you wanna call it that) is to not let your peers try to stuff you into one box or the other; to the not-so-budding bisexuals, if you can laugh at it, this works and, hell, who knows, maybe you can enlighten someone who has that either/or mentality about bisexuals?

Another question:  “Does it make a difference?”  My answer:  “No; should it?”  I mean, really, if I’ve told you that I’m bi, the fact that it doesn’t make a difference is implied here.  The questions sometimes calls for a crude, if not effective, answer at times:  I like pussy and dick.  Now, a legitimate question or questions would be along the lines of how much I like dick and, oddly enough, any questions on how much I like pussy are instantly moot – haven’t quite figured that one out but I think that’s because since I’m a guy, pussy is assumed to be my default choice and, of course, the only guys who don’t like pussy are gay men (as far as I know).

It’s kinda nuts to know that, yeah, we can swing both ways… then “insist” that there’s some preferred order involved.  Folks attempt to quantify this by pointing to the number of times you have bi sex versus the number of times you have straight sex and while this is kinda telling in some ways, frequency has nothing to do with it.

As I’ve said a few times here of late, this either/or thing is Sith thinking – it’s an absolute; bisexuals don’t act this way and they sure as hell don’t think that way.  Perhaps this is because, as another blogger put it, society doesn’t want bisexuals to exist but since we do, we have to be given the choice between one or the other; we’re to choose between being straight or gay even when it’s clear that we choose to be both and neither in our thinking and doing – how hard is this to figure out and, more, how hard is this to understand?

Now to be honest, we do kinda make a choice in our heads when we get horny along the lines of what we’re horny for at that moment.  To that end, you could call that an either/or thing – but it’s one based more on availability than anything else.  There are times when I get horny for dick and that’s what would satisfy  me… but if there’s pussy available, okay, that’ll work and vice versa.  You could call it an either/or thing simply because, unlike straights or gays, we have a choice in a sexual partner… but it’s not really an either/or thing because if either is available – or can be made available – at that moment, well, someone’s going to get turned out either way, huh?

For a lot of us, it’s not a thing of us liking men in the same way that we’d like women; it’s about the sex we can have and, indeed, a lot of the more “modern” bisexuals don’t like, say, men, anymore than what’s necessary to get into their underwear.  To this end, I think both straights and gays tend to look at this in terms of having a relationship and, yeah, while this is possible and does happen, for the most part, having a relationship in the traditional sense with a member of the same sex isn’t usually on the menu and if it is, it’s strictly for the purpose of getting each other off and has nothing to do with romance.

Another question:  “Why do you feel you must have both?”  My answer: “Because I do – are you suggesting that I shouldn’t?”  Is there any benefit in being either straight or gay?  Maybe there is… but, duh, bisexuals don’t think so; otherwise, we probably wouldn’t be bisexuals, huh?  My other answer to this question:  “Why should I put limits on my sexual pleasure?”

The answer to this one is easy:  Because society and our morality says I should put those limits in place – and it’s an answer I don’t accept.  It says that I should put the responsibility for my sexual happiness and pleasure in one place or the other and just make one gender bear the burden in this… and that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me if, ultimately, I’m responsible for making myself happy when it’s time to get naked and all that.

So, no:  Either/or doesn’t work for me in this nor does it work for other bisexuals.  When you get right down to it, it’s about having options that straights and gays don’t have or want to exercise – and that’s fine… just stop trying to drag us into either of these boxes when we clearly don’t want to be there.

My roommate in the Air Force was gay and, in private, made no bones about it.  It didn’t take long for us to become lovers and that was fine.  One night, I came back to the apartment we shared off-base from a date with a woman and he got pissed about it – well, even more pissed I should say – because I came home smelling like coochie.  We wound up having a literal fight about it (which he lost badly) and as I patched up his battle damage, I asked him what the big deal was and more so since he knew I went both ways.  His answer, which I had expected to be one based on possessiveness, was anything but – he felt that I should give up going both ways in favor of just being gay because to him, nothing else made any sense.

He even gave me an ultimatum:  It was either dick or pussy and I couldn’t have both because, yeah, he wanted me all to himself but, again, felt that I should be gay.  For me, it was the first time I’d ever run into this mindset… and it allowed me to see it in other people I eventually wound up meeting.  And, if you’re wondering, I told my roommate that I wasn’t going to accept his ultimatum and he didn’t speak to me for a week… but we did “kiss and make up.”  The “funny” thing here is that he didn’t accept my rejection of his ultimatum because my being bi made sense to him – he accepted it because he didn’t want me to whip his ass again; you really shouldn’t pick a fight with someone with two black belts in two martial arts and who has a nasty temper…

This either/or frame of mind makes it hard to talk to straight or gay folks who can accept us being bi because we really don’t have a complete and shared frame of reference; imagine trying to explain to a gay guy why you like pussy and you’ll see what I’m talking about here.  Like, I can talk to gay guys about sex with men but if I mention coochie, I can see them tuning me out because they’ve either never had some of that stuff or they have some innate hatred along those lines.

Maybe the mindset exists because it’s simpler to be one way or the other?  I’ve learned over the years not to get totally irate over having either/or tossed at me… but it’s still one of my pet peeves.

 

Elitism in the Life

Over the last few days, I’ve been working on a lifestyle “problem” that, in that grand scheme of things, doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.  Well, it does when you think about how insane some people behave when there’s sex – or the potential for sex – involved.  I personally find it bothersome but it also exposes a side of the swinging lifestyle that, if I were a newbie and thinking about becoming one of these “special” people, ah, I’d think not twice but maybe ten times before jumping off this particular cliff.

Of course, I understand the complexities of things like friendship and loyalty, just as I understand how it’s possible to do these noble things and, at some point, wind up making a few enemies of the people you’re supposed to be friends with.  Is it defending one’s friends that can cause this… or is it simply playing out one’s own agenda by doing and saying things that will discredit a friend so that you can curry favor from someone else?

While I cannot get into any specifics about this, the whole thing had me thinking about something I happened to be reminded of while my baby was working on her bachelor’s in criminal justice:  Elitism or, in this context and for the purposes of this blog, “My dick is bigger than yours!”  From time to time, I’ll sit down at the keyboard and do a little ranting and raving about swinging websites and while you have the impression that swingers are a bunch of sex-starved, hedonistic individuals looking to screw everything moving, on a website, there’s a lot of political shit going on and a class system seems to settle onto something that, in my opinion, would be better off without.

You just have this thing where some people on a website has it in their heads that they are better than some of the other members of the same site.  They get more booty, their way of doing things is the prevalent and premier way to swing and the opinions of others means little to them; if you manage to show them up – and that’s not all that hard to do if you understand the mindset I’m referring to – then they go from being all pompous and hoity-toity to some really vindictive people in the amount of time it takes me to finish this sentence (about three or four seconds).

That’s when the smear campaigns get going on the site forums; lies are told, confidences are betrayed, secrets laid bare to the light and related indiscriminately to anyone who’ll care to listen to them, agree with the doer of this shit, and join them in a righteous battle against those who dared to challenge their supposed greatness as an elite of the site.  My question is simply, what the fuck for?

It’s a stupid way for people to behave and, to an outsider, it shows a lack of like- and open-mindedness as well as a sense that we’re not as all-together in this as the hype says we are.  Yes, on a swinging site, it is one good-sized community… but it’s also one that has many lines of division and it doesn’t take long to join a site, access its forums, and see where the lines are drawn as well as displays of behavior that remind me of when I was back in elementary school.

I think one of the reasons why I find this both fascinating and bothering is that I’ve been in the lifestyle for over thirty-some-odd years and, in some cases, I was doing this before a lot of the “elite” swingers were even born and certainly longer than some of the older ones.  To them, I’m old school and from the time period when swinging – wife-swapping – was a new thing suburbanites did when they got bored… but there’s an advantage in being old school in that I get to see things today that are, by and large, a huge slap in the face to the swinger’s mantra of, “It’s just sex.”  In other words, it’s really a well-conceived lie because while you can engage fellow site members for sex, there’s a lot more going on than trying to put A into B, C, and D.

I think it begins with the concept of like-mindedness which, taken at face value, connotes the sense of everyone thinking the same or along similar lines… and that ain’t even close to being the truth.  The only like-minded thing in this regard is that everyone on a site wants to be (or already is) a swinger and, duh, we’re there to get laid – and it breaks down like rice paper in water after that because everyone has their own idea of what being a swinger is about.  There are so many factions on any given swinging site – and so much shit being flung around – it makes running for public office look tame by comparison.  You have the straight folks, who are, admittedly, the majority; you have the bisexuals, the group I call the HWP gang, the lurkers – those are the folks who just lay back in the cut like voyeurs – the flakes and fakes, the full swap contingent as well as the soft swap crew; the club goers and the house party people, as well as a few really minority-like groups, like the BDSM and interracial groups and the bareback and condom-only factions.

That sex winds up being rather well represented is actually a good thing because it can be said that there’s something for everyone in this; it just all goes straight to hell when you figure out who the major players are once you start peeping the forums and, if you’re like me, you get to see that elite crew in action.  Oh, yeah, they’ve done this and that, have “powerful” friends in the lifestyle and maybe even are buddy-buddy with whomever is running the site that they’re on and that’s all well and good.  But what you also see is that these same people have this “my way or no way” attitude about being in the lifestyle and, thus, while some of them will say that it’s about what you wanna do and all that, on the other side of the keyboard and monitor, well, they ain’t too happy with your ass and, yep, you gotta be dealt with because you’re just not getting with their program.

How do you get to be part of the elite?  Well, the easiest way to do it is to join a site and start posting in the forums in a reasonable, responsible and adult manner.  Do it like that often enough and you can become one of the major players in a site’s forums and earn the respect of the others.  The other way to do it is to just go in there and start kissing the asses of the major players, sucking up to them and giving them the false illusion that their view of the lifestyle is the way to do it.  To further aid in this, find all of the people who don’t like your favorite major player, befriend them, get them to speak out against your master… then run back to them and rat your new friends out – then sit back and giggle insanely as the elite gird their loins for battle on and off the forums against those who dare to speak out against them.

Almost sounds downright medieval, doesn’t it?  Feudal lords and their serfs, fill up the moat, and protect our “superior” vision of the lifestyle while taking the site’s forums in the direction they want it to go, like making it in their image and all that.  These folks, for some reason, just have to establish their dominance over the other members… and that just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.  They think they’re right in all things swinging and even though they will tell you otherwise, if you’re not with them, you’re against them.

And if this isn’t quite ringing a bell with you, just think about the politics you probably see at work – and then you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.  Really kinda insane to see that the quest for sex can be so, um, politically driven, huh?  It really isn’t as simple as sending an email to a couple and asking them if they wanna get down.

The elite feel – as elites often do – that everything they do is right.  They can be very rude and inconsiderate while extolling their position that they do not have to explain themselves to anyone.  Common courtesy means nothing to them and I’ve found that a lot of them tend to be really good at smiling in your face… while slipping the knife into you, preferably from the back – and all because you don’t agree with the way they handle themselves and lifestyle things in the forums.  They feel that they are at the very top of the swinging food chain and quite untouchable.

For someone like me who gets a kick out of watching people being people, oh, it is so educational!  It’s often funny as much as it is depressingly sobering to see people who are supposedly into the same thing behave like snarling beasts fighting for that last scrap of food.  If you can get your head around the principles of “it’s just sex,” well, you can see how this behavior is so counterproductive and, ultimately, damaging to people who are seen as not being amongst the elite on a site.

What kinda escapes me at some point is why this behavior exists.  It’s so complex in its nature that even I have to simplify it and say, “Well, lack of pussy makes motherfuckers crazy!” because nothing else seems to make a whole lot of sense.  At least from my point of view, sucking up and kissing the elites’ asses ain’t gonna get them any sex – and especially from them – I just don’t see the up-side of being a two-faced, ass-kissing backstabber who’d turn on their real friends in the life just to make themselves appear worthy to be one of the site’s elite.

On another blog that I contribute things do about the life, I’ve said to any newbies that might visit that while joining a website does have some benefits – it’ll at least put you in touch with swingers in your area – it’s also one of the worst things you can do, especially if you can’t tolerate people behaving very badly in the pursuit of getting some nookie.  I’ve said to them that if they wanna see people at their worst, join a swinging site and go to the forums and start reading.

Are you bisexual?  Go to your forums and mention that and how much you like being a bisexual… and find out what the membership thinks of that, especially when the straight majority – who also comprise the majority of the elites – takes your preference for sex and makes you feel as if you’ve been doing it all wrong and that being straight when it comes to fucking is the only way to be in the lifestyle.

Into a little BDSM or have some other kind of fetish?  Do you prefer soft-swapping over doing the whole nine yards?  Like a particular club?  Friends with an owner of that club?  Say something about it and find out what happens.  You’d probably find that your preference gets bashed more than those who would agree that your way is a cool way to get your cookies crumbled.  Like hair on a coochie?  Oops… I hope your feelings are not easily damaged.  Like sex with people who are, say, over 200 pounds?  If you’re a BBW or BBM – that’s Big Beautiful Woman or Man, respectively, put on your flame-retardant body armor because while you have such a positive attitude about yourself, you’ve stepped into the den where a lot of people – those elite motherfuckers – will hate on you just because you weigh 225 or whatever.

Are you not HWP – height and weigh proportionate?  Like the top of you doesn’t quite match the bottom or maybe you’re not in the best shape you could be in?  Better watch your ass – and then be prepared to have the elite, who all seem to have advanced degrees in human physiology – tell you that you’re a fat, lazy bastard that needs to get off your ass and get in shape – and, oh, because you don’t match their vision of perfection, they’d rather have sex with a dead dog before getting in bed with you.

Are you a single guy trying to hang out in a world dominated by couples?  Oh, you are so fucked!  Don’t like having sex with Black people or anyone who isn’t white?  Well, be prepared to be called a racist no matter how you explain yourself – if you even feel like you have to defend your position.  Are you over the age of, say, thirty?  Ha, you’d better get your old and decrepit ass down to the old folks home before you have a heart attack or something.  Are you “in denial” about your sexuality?  Prepare to get your head handed to you on that one.  Out in the open about it – and you’re not a woman?  Oh, you are just so wrong, you pervert!

Coming down the home stretch here and the worst of the behavior:  Are you friends with someone who has a reason to dislike another of your friends?  I see a lot of this, just as I’ve seen friends turning against each other in some rather destructive ways as their loyalties get misplaced… and for what?  I’ve seen friends get themselves all caught up in the middle of some pretty heinous shit as the two friends who don’t like each other try to get the support of the friend who likes both of them – it’s some pretty fugly shit to be caught in the middle; which friend do you support?  Who’s side are you on?  How the fuck did you wind up in this mess to begin with?  You’re likely to wind up making an enemy of a friend but it doesn’t stop there – it’ll snowball because friends of that friend will now turn on you like a pack of rabid dogs… and then it’s cluster fuck time.  It will be raining shit for more than forty days and forty nights… and for what?

This, dear readers, is what I get (but don’t get) is what’s the benefit here.  Is there one?  Is your quest for sex in the lifestyle so important that you have to put your personal character on the line in the pursuit of a piece of ass?  Is getting some tail worth assassinating the character of someone you once called friend?  Or is your view of being in the lifestyle so elitist in nature that you don’t really have any friends but just a shit load of people you’d not only fuck but then stab them in the back whenever it suits your purposes?

Then how do you feel when you destroy what was once a good friendship in order to curry favor with someone else – and they kick you to the curb – and all because they see that if you stabbed one friend in the back, you could just as easily do it to them?

It’s really quite sad to see this behavior in a lifestyle where we’re all supposed to get along with each other and for a singular purpose – to have sex and to have fun doing it.

 

Taking Sides

I don’t make any bones about my liking being in the swinging lifestyle and taking things deeper than that if that’s what will work to the benefit of all.  What gets me about the lifestyle is how clique-ish people can be in this regard, how they build and establish loyalties where such things shouldn’t exist if the lifestyle is “just sex.”  I’ve come to kinda/sorta understand just how stupid people can be when it comes to getting laid, especially outside of the established relationship and, more often than not, any problems that crop up in this doesn’t always originate within the relationship – it’s due to outside interference.

That people have varying opinions about being in the life is a given; everyone’s experiences will be different and even more different than you might expect it to be – you just can’t foresee everything.  The thought behind some of being in the life is finding people who, as they say, are like-minded in this and that makes sense… until the whole like-minded thing turns in to a lot of divided camps on the subject and starts to nitpick who can fuck who, how it should be done, and other insane shit like that.

While I’ll admit that the Internet has done a lot to get like-minded people together, it seems to have made a “simple” thing like getting laid a lot more difficult that it used to be.  Back in the day, hooking up was a lot more personal and face-to-face; there was no such thing as Googling someone or running a background check on them; you just got together and decided if fucking was going to happen or not; if it did, great but if it didn’t, well, okay, keep us in mind and thanks for being interested.

That the Internet allowed swingers to create enclaves to hang out in makes sense; easier to find like-minded people if they’re all congregated in one place – then it’s just a matter of sorting through a target rich environment, almost like shooting fish in a barrel… but not really.  Cliques form, like you have the “full swap gang” and the “soft swap crew” going at it as well as the straight folks versus the bisexuals and all that.  People form opinions along these lines and, well, that things can get nasty is an understatement.  Loyalties to one faction or the other are built and anything or anyone who offends or “attacks” that loyalty is dealt with in what I’d call childish ways… and all because people want to fuck each other.

But that’s kinda expected when you get a bunch of people together who aren’t as like-minded as they think they are.  The only thing in common that exists is that, yeah, we like the idea of being able to have sex outside of our relationships; the problem shows up in the execution because now everyone has their own selfish ideas on how this should be done, who it should be done with, and even what can be said – or not said – about it specifically or even generally.

It’s why I’ve said that joining a swinging site is both a good and bad thing to do because if you really want to see humans behaving badly when it comes to sex, well, joining a site is the best way to do this.  People on a site will just find ways to fuck up the joys of sex and negotiated infidelity by creating or joining existing factions when, in fact, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to do this and even they find out that, say, joining the “straight” faction winds up being self-defeating.  Following that particular mindset can and will make you miss out on a lot of great sex because of a group prejudice.  It always amazes me that swingers on a site will always claim to not be prejudiced… but they really are and it covers a whole lot of things that shouldn’t exist and only serves to get in the way of getting laid.

Should one’s political views get in the way of getting your rocks off?  You’d think that it wouldn’t… but it does.  Do people join sites and collect enemies as well as friends?  You bet your ass that happens and when you figure out why this happens, well, I know I see it as people behaving badly over something that, at least on paper, is a simple thing to do, like passing notes in school – do you want to fuck, yes or no – circle one and give the note back.

You’d think that being in the life is about satisfying one’s desires for sex… and that’s not the whole truth and, again, not as simple as you might expect it to be if everyone is supposed to be of the same mind about it.  It appears to be sex just for the sake of being able to do it… but it isn’t because, duh, even people in the lifestyle aren’t as like- or open-minded as they think they are – the whole thing is a sham and an illusion and the reality underneath it is one gigantic clusterfuck because people are just so damned picky about it.

As I’ve often said, on a swinging site, it’s not about the sex you can have – it’s about the sex you want to have and all the things that people will do to make sure sex doesn’t happen.  It’s a stupid way to behave when you stop to think about it.  Yes, you can make a lot of friends this way, even if having sex with them is undoable for some reason, like you live in Ohio and they live in Texas… but part of the swinging experience is about developing those friendships and being able to share, if nothing else, the desire to experience sex via negotiated infidelity… but to be able to explore the possibilities without someone getting pissed off behind it.

It takes something that, at least in my opinion, should be a no-brainer and turns it into something as complicated as orbital mechanics – it does become rocket science.  It winds up being like this simply because we really aren’t as like-minded about this as we say we are and a lot of people lack vision and focus when it comes to this sexual avenue, turning the desire for such sex into some weird sort of sexual politics… and that happens mostly because they don’t have anything better to do, like making it easier to get laid in the first place.  My thoughts have always been that if people on a site spent more time getting laid, they wouldn’t spend as much time causing problems on the various sites that exist – it’s just a stupid way to be… but it is what one should expect in this.

Everyone wants to do it and, yeah, it can be a lot of fun… but I guess some folks think that making it difficult to do is the best way to accomplish their goal.  Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.  Bashing folks because of who they associate with – and that’s kinda based on their views of having sex and all that – doesn’t make any sense either.  It’s a given that we all don’t have the same opinions about any aspect of doing it and that’s because of the very obvious fact that we are all different people with different experiences and the like.

Some folks get on a site and adopt an attitude, usually for or against something, then get together with people who think like they do and then defend the position to, say, not have sex if a bisexual male is involved, standing on their God-given right to refuse sex for any reason they care to state.  Then again, a lot of these same people are also the ones sitting around and wondering why they’re not getting any action or why a couple who looked promising just upped and disappeared on them – and they did so because their loyalties to some other school of thought – or even a person – got offended.

It’s such a petty way to behave and is one of the reasons I’d tell anyone thinking about doing this to consider not doing it… or to try to get into this without joining one of the many websites that exist.  If you do, yeah, you can be successful while avoiding the constant drama that exists… but you also might find yourself getting caught up in it and, sure enough, it will get in the way of what you want to do about this.

Once upon a time, I gave some serious thought to creating a site of my own from the ground up.  The technical side of it wouldn’t be that difficult, given my skill set and all that… but when I thought about membership management, well, it wasn’t hard to see that this aspect would be very difficult to keep a handle on and mostly because people have the right to say whatever they feel needs to be said no matter if it’s bad or harmful to others.  There’s not a whole lot that can be done to keep this behavior down to a dull roar; then the masses get pissed because you’ve gone “Big Brother” on them and, in effect, wind up having to censure things that are being said.  Nah, it’s too much of a logistical headache because you don’t want or need all this drama on your site – and there’s no sure way to prevent it without someone feeling that their rights are violated – fuck whatever your Terms of Service says; they will be summarily ignored.

I’ve often been chastised on the sites whenever I mention the good old days of the swinging lifestyle.  Back then, it was a lot more personal; you had to make contact and do more face-to-face negotiating and a lot of times, it was just as simple as asking, “Do you want to fuck?” and without having to take into consideration who they might be friends with or what their political views are.  It was just a lot more simple compared to what you have to go through today.

The “modern” swingers scoff at this… and maybe because it was too simple for them and not tailored to their specific needs, desires, prejudices, etc.  I’m not saying or suggesting that such things aren’t important… I am saying that all that does is complicate things.  It’s like people want to know if the sex is going to be good before they actually do it… and when you think about that, it’s kinda silly because there’s only one way to determine that – get naked and do it.

But all the cliques, factions, and opposing points of view serve to diminish the joy of having sex, the “legality” of it all notwithstanding.  It’s good to have your mind in the gutter about this and not being all that concerned about the dumb shit that can crop up.  Just fucking do it and if it was good, do it again; if not, okay, can’t please everyone, but who’s next?  Who wants or needs some extra stuff?

Politics shouldn’t matter; sexuality shouldn’t matter, who your friends might be in this doesn’t matter; only the sex should matter and it continues to amaze me all the things people will do to get it… while trying their level best not to allow it to happen.  Not only do they attempt to hold others to their selfish standards but they will also go out of their way to undermine the sensibilities of others and by any means necessary – and all because they can’t see eye-to-eye about this.

Go figure…  and, by the way, just because I’m ranting and raving about this doesn’t mean that if you’re thinking about being in the lifestyle, you shouldn’t do it – I strongly suggest that despite anything I might say about it, you keep your own counsel and make your own decisions about how you want to go about being in the life.  You don’t have to join a website but all that means is that you’ll have to work a little harder to get what you’re looking for.  But, if you’re like me and have little or no patience/tolerance for stupid shit, don’t join a swinging site unless you really like looking at people behaving badly.

 

Would She Do It?

I was checking out Cinnamon’s advice blog (and one I’m an author on a well) and my eyes spied a little banner that said, “How to turn your wife into a swinger” and a link I’m guessing gives some advice in that direction and my first thought was, “Why would anyone want to do that?”  No, I’m not saying that it’s impossible to do and it probably gets suggested a lot these days and when I think about the buzz saw you could run face-first into by asking girlfriend if she wants to do it, you can see why that question popped into my head.

Once upon a time, when you got married, you “settled down,” which mostly meant you stopped running around like a hormone-crazed individual and start being a model member of society or as officials have been heard to say during some wedding ceremonies, it’s time to put away childish things and start acting like adults.  One of the reasons why I tend to look at traditional marriages as a construct that doesn’t quite work the way it used to is that it can be seen that people don’t really settle down (lots do) nor do they pack up their hormones and put them on a shelf in that sex might be a lot of things – but it ain’t childish; one’s behavior is a different kettle of fish.

I’m fully aware of the reasons why people decide to swing; either someone ain’t getting enough booty – but cheating isn’t worth the problems it causes – or people who have settled down in their relationship discover that, hey, we’ve been doing great… but something’s missing.

On the various sites we belong to, you see this question asked a lot by men and whenever I see it, I get the distinct impression that he wants to dive in but is also afraid to bring it up to the missus because she might rip his head off and shit down his neck for even thinking about that.  When I’ve been asked about the lifestyle, I’ll give them my thoughts about it along with asking why the person wanted to do this and, depending on what I know about the both of them, I usually suggest that they not even go there because, these days, stepping into that particular pool can be likened to cutting yourself in various places and going for a swim in shark-infested waters; you might get out alive but with chunks of yourself missing and you might not survive it at all.

I recall a moment when a bunch of us were sitting around talking, our heads all down in the gutter and one guy mentioned swapping.  At that moment, I looked around and saw the faces of the men present light up like the proverbial Christmas tree while most women got this look on their faces that suggested that this wouldn’t be a smart thing to bring up, let alone do.  As the guy continued to talk, I observed everyone around me and saw one woman paying close attention to the speaker, which told me that, at the least, she’d consider it.

There’s a thing in the lifestyle that says that it’s driven by women – but that’s not entirely true because most of the people you see on websites are guys looking for extra coochie but they know that unless the missus gives the high sign, it’s window-shopping only.  It’s not that all women don’t want to get laid – they do.  Women are a lot more “funny” about giving it up to different people than men are and, of course, when you marry them, the whole idea is to not go screwing around in the literal sense.

In that discussion I mentioned, the guy turned to his wife and began laying down his rationale for this, pointing at me and the then-wife to say, “If they can do it, we can too!” which I knew wasn’t going to be well-accepted – but girlfriend sat there and listened while everyone else was sitting on the edge of their seats and waiting for the execution to start.  Now, I will admit that, to a certain degree, his logic was flawless and he was on a roll right up to the point where she looked at him and asked, “What, I’m not enough for you?”

It didn’t matter what he said after that and I sensed that not only had she made up her mind about this, she had pretty much stopped listening to what was still a rather logical and compelling discourse by her husband.  He ran out of things to say and you could see his wife had been sitting there loading up her verbal mini-gun and the moment he stopped talking by saying, “What do you think, baby?” – she pretty much cut him in half and stomped on the pieces that remained.

No one wants to be told, directly or indirectly, that they’re unskilled or stingy when it come to making whoopee.  That a lot of people are isn’t the point; if I am, I don’t wanna hear about it, okay?  While the wife was cutting loose on him similar to that scene in “Predator” when Bill Duke’s character started defoliating the jungle with a mini-gun – and I love that scene, by the way – I understood he was looking at it as a way to spice up their relationship, she took it as her being inadequate.  They wound up leaving and she had already loaded up her third ammo pack and was using her full firing rate on the way out – and we all felt sorry for him.

There was a moment of  embarrassed silence and I broke it by asking a rhetorical question:  “What did he think she was gonna do when he suggested that to her?”  While everyone agreed that the guy’s logic was sound and almost impeccable, one woman said that even though it made sense, there’s no way in hell that she would even think about doing something like that and her reasoning for this actually had nothing to do with being married – it was about self-respect.

Women are really touchy about this and it’s something that makes men insane because some women want to draw the attention and likes the idea of men being attracted to them… and they don’t like it all at the same time.  Women are taught in their early development that giving it up to anyone who asks for it is not a good thing for them to do and that they should really save themselves for Mr. Right, be in love with the guy, all that good stuff.  Women have reasons for putting the goodies on lock-down, don’t they?  And if you understand this, why would you ask your woman to become a swinger?  Even if it sounds like a good idea to them, that self-respect thing kicks in, she grabs the mini-gun, and then defoliates you for having the audacity to suggest that she willingly climb in bed with another man.

Yes, some women will say, “Okay, let’s go for it and see what happens!”  That’s usually the moment where homeboy realizes that he’s got some insecurity issues to deal with because it’s one thing to sit down with your lady and talk about how you feel about someone else playing on your course – and it’s something very different to see her do it.  So, in a way, it’s not that a guy asks that question:  It’s a question of whether or not he’s grown up enough to hear the answer on top of understanding something about women in that if you even suggest to her anything that sounds like you’re not satisfied with her, you’re dead meat and even when the initial drama winds down, she will, in all probability, never forgive you for stepping to her like that.

If you look at it from her point of view, that’s some fucked up shit to put on the table – it’s a direct insult to them and doesn’t do much to keep her impressions about you all nice and shiny, either.  In her mind, you’re telling her you’d rather go fuck some stranger than to have sex with her and this is on top of the fact that, for whatever reasons, she’s not giving it up to you as much as either of you would like.  It implies that you are unhappy with her, even if she knows she’s given you reason to be that way – but she’d rather things be like that and you do something about it that doesn’t involve another man raiding her refrigerator.

It’s not that she doesn’t like getting laid – it’s all about the way she looks at herself.  Women do find that they can do this and not lose one ounce of respect for themselves and that her man even respects her a whole lot more for giving it a shot because, as I’ve said, this thing ain’t for the faint of heart or those folks with more insecurities than Campbell’s has beans.

I think women say yes to this because (a) it’ll get them laid more often, (b) their self-respect and esteem are rock solid, (c) they trust their guy to keep them safe in this, (d) it makes sense if some spicing is needed and (e) she knows their relationship is practically bulletproof or, ain’t no dick that good that’ll make me leave you or wreck what we have.

That whole thing about keeping only unto yourselves, while time-honored and the way it’s supposed to be, really doesn’t work for some folks.  They do love and need each other very much and when they’ve exhausted all of the things they can do with each other, it’s time for something new and different.  It’s why I tell people that unless your relationship is rock-solid and neither of you have a lot of insecurities about each other, well, give it a shot with the knowledge that it might not happen right off the bat and that your actual experiences may be very different from what you thought before the fact.

Due to the stroke I had, I know I have some gaps in my memory but one of the things I do remember was how I felt the first time I saw my wife getting nailed by some other guy – I wanted to commit murder and in a very grisly way and more so since she was enjoying it.  But, I also realized a couple of heartbeats later that this was the whole point; doesn’t make a lot of sense to do this and not have fun doing it.  That first time will test the strength of your relationship like you wouldn’t believe and I think that a lot of men who suggest they get into this knows he’s really not strong enough to overlook his insecurities – so he proposes rules that will put limits on her ability to get out there and have all the fun that’s been advertised.  I’m sure women will lay down whatever do’s and don’t’s that will make them happy… but I’m also of a mind to think that her list is way shorter than her man’s.

If you can convince your woman that this is a good thing, my thoughts are that you’d better have a plan in place that’s centered on things being about “us” more than individual concerns.  Yes, if they’re happy then, in theory, you get to benefit from that happiness – but this isn’t about making someone happy getting laid as it is about what doing this can positively bring to your relationship – and then be able to see the long view more than concerning one’s self about immediate gratification.

All too often, you see and/or hear of a couple trying this with disastrous results; he or she finds that they have a lot of jealous bones in their body or they see that there partner’s having much more fun with someone else at the controls than they do with them and maybe this happens because someone – maybe the man – thinks it would be fun without taking into consideration their own reactions and some of them you really can’t predict because you might know your partner but you don’t know the other people all that well and, shit, it’s one hell of a crap shoot if you’ve not played the “what if” game to the fullest extent possible.

If you don’t, you’ll find out that women come with mini-guns as standard equipment:  You will get shredded.  I think that women, more than men, select a guy and says, “Okay, he’ll do” and either works with what she has or finds out otherwise – but will stick with that guy because that’s what she’s supposed to do and not running from bed to bed and taking that chance that some other dude will be able to scratch that itch without opening Pandora’s box… and some women would rather leave it closed and with good reason.

Being in the lifestyle can bring that spice that may be needed especially if there are fantasies to make into reality and that’s provided you can get her to reveal them – and then you don’t get pissed when you learn that some of the doable ones have nothing to do with you, fella.  This is probably one of the areas where women will invoke “thinking ain’t the same as doing;” it’s fine if she thinks about doing two guys or exploring the girl thing… but actually doing it?  And I wonder if a woman says no to swinging, is she more concerned about herself in this… or the impact it might have on her man?  She may be strong enough to deal with stuff… but maybe she knows that he isn’t as strong as he thinks he is?  Maybe the concrete that holds the relationship together hasn’t fully cured and set yet so it can’t take the strain being in the life can put on it?

Again, I think this is why people agree to do this – then lay down rules that are designed to prohibit each other from having fun during sex, thereby defeating the whole purpose of what being sexually liberated can bring to the table.  You might be able to convince her this is a good thing but if you’re not prepared to deal with the consequences, perhaps you’re better off not asking her about this.  Logic will not work as expected because, as I mentioned, she could agree with you all up and down the line about this – and she’ll never consent to do it and it’s because of what she thinks about herself and sex because women tend to be more “one man, one woman” than anything else that logic would be able to suggest.  And, sure enough, she’s intuitive enough to see that if y’all get into this, um, you’re not going to like how it all goes down and that’s reason enough to 86 the whole thing; “It sounds good, baby, but I don’t think so…”

 

Swinging on the Down Low

One of the watchwords in the lifestyle is discretion; for a lot of folks, they don’t want anyone else knowing that they’re trying to screw (or have screwed) people they ain’t married to.   During a discussion about who might know that you’re a swinger, I kinda pointed out to them that, um, they might not be as discreet as they think they are and simply because you don’t know who knows what you’re up to.

Few swingers will just come out and say that’s what they do; most go through some pretty convoluted shit to stay hidden in this and perhaps not realizing that they’ve gotten into a pattern of behavior that, for some, ain’t too hard to figure out why they’re acting the way they are.  Here’s the thing, though:  Just because they don’t say anything doesn’t mean they don’t know anything – this was one of my father’s favorite sayings, his way of letting us know that we weren’t as slick as we thought we were – and we usually weren’t.

My mother figured it out where I was concerned… and gave me a lecture that not only made me feel like I was seven years old again but I had an incredible urge to go upstairs to the room that used to be mine.  I thought I had been doing a great job at being discreet… only to find out – and because I asked her – that it was my behavior in this that gave me away – and then she told me about some things she figured out about me that I didn’t know she knew.  And I found that while it bothered me that she knew, it didn’t matter a whole lot ’cause, well, I like and want to do this and, being grown, I didn’t need her approval in any of it.

In this, a lot of swingers will jump up and defiantly say that what they do is no one else’s business – and this is so; like I said, few swingers don’t have a problem with who knows what they’re doing.  For everyone else, it’s a state secret worthy of the CIA, not like they have any secrets, huh?

A lot of this is borne out of the fact that sex – any kind of sex – is such a private matter.  It’s not to be talked about and, indeed, a lot of people get quite squirrelly when a conversation about sex comes up.  If you think about it, it’s kinda silly, ain’t it?  You’re a man or a woman and one can reasonably assume that you are getting laid in some fashion; what might not be known is how they’re getting their cookies off.  Okay, if you know that people will automatically assume that you’re getting laid, um, it’s not a secret, is it?  Ha, even when you know that they know, you still try to, at the least, keep the details a secret… but that comes out in the wash, too, doesn’t it?

This sense of discretion and even that reluctance to talk about things sexual shows up in the lifestyle and it just cracks me up:  How in the hell do you expect to get laid in the life if you don’t want to talk about the sex?  Few details in this area are exchanged – if any; some folks say they don’t wanna talk about it – they just wanna do it (and the sooner, the better) and, oh, yeah, being discreet is of the greatest importance!

Swingers are paranoid.  They want to jump into the pool… but don’t want anyone to know they can swim – how insane is that?  Some swingers do not play at home because they don’t want their neighbors to know what they’re doing… but they’ve already assumed that you’re fucking and, yep, depending on a few things, they may know it for a fact.  If, however, you play elsewhere, do you think the neighbors don’t notice that every weekend, you’re not at home, that you often come home at some weird time of day or night?  Or, if you do entertain at home, do you really think they can’t figure out what’s going on when they see a strange car in your driveway, see the people go in… and notice when they leave?  Oh, yeah, and they notice that these “visitors” ain’t related to you so they don’t have a reason for spending the night at your house?

It’s really not that hard to figure out because, as my mother informed me, the more you try to hide something, the easier it is to figure out what you’re hiding.  Okay, you might sneak off to the no-tell motel for a hook-up… but who might have seen you go in there?  Fact is, you don’t know – there’s no way for you to know.  You take your act on the road, safely away from home, work, family, etc., but how do you know that, say, one of your neighbors might be in the same place for different reasons?  Someone that knows you – but you don’t know them – could see you and the other couple hanging out at Denny’s and put two and two together.

In this, it’s the explanation I gave my children when they got busted trying to bag school which is, simply, they didn’t know the people I know that knows them.  The moral of that story – and even the one I’m blogging about – is that you never know who will see you doing whatever – and you might not know them… but they know you… and people talk.

My thought is like this:  Is it really a matter of who knows what you’re up do?  It’s really a matter of whether or not it makes a difference to you if someone else knows – and this is what swingers either don’t get or are terribly afraid of.  One couple that tried to hook up with us was so paranoid it wasn’t funny.  On their site profile, there was very little information because they were worried about someone finding them on a swinging site; they only wanted to meet someplace neutral away from where they lived… but not where we live – and on a particular day and at a particular time – and the encounter could only go on for a certain amount of time… and all because they didn’t want anyone to know.  They wanted a phone number for us… but wouldn’t give us one and even insisted that if they called us, we had to turn off our caller ID when they emailed us to tell us they were going to call on a specific day and at a specific time – and then the conversation had to be kept short.  What, did they think the NSA would be listening in?

As ridiculous as this sounds, a lot of swingers behave in such a fashion.  Indeed, swingers spend more time worrying about their image than they do working on getting laid in the lifestyle.  One couple told us that discretion was supremely important – yes, that’s exactly what they said – because of their standing in the community and the high-profile jobs they had.  It led me to ask them that if they were so worried about this, why were they in the lifestyle?  It seems to me that if someone finding out about this could ruin you, um, don’t do it, right?  Here’s the punchline:  They told us that they couldn’t figure out why they were having such a hard time playing with other people, nor could they figure out why no one would agree to their terms.  Hmm, I wonder why…?

Could it be that the more you try to hide something the less able you are to do something?  And then, when you go to great lengths to hide something, someone will, invariably, figure out what it is you’re hiding?

It’s just too fucking funny…