You should go read PV’s blog to get the flavor of what I’m about to say – here’s the link: http://perverticallyvirtuous.com/2013/10/05/will-you-make-all-my-fantasies-come-true/. Now, let us begin a discussion that’ll probably get me flamed so while you read PV’s blog – and my comments – I’ll put on my flame-resistant gear.
Derrick Flint, played by the late James Coburn, said in one of his movies, “You are not a sex object…” to some beautiful babes who were brainwashed into thinking that they were, part of an evil female plot to take over the world – I believe the movie was “In Like Flint,” if memory serves me – it could have been the other one, “Our Man Flint” but, yeah,he said it.
And Derrick Flint was wrong: Women are sex objects…but that’s not the only thing they are and women have been raging against sexual objectification. Ladies, I mean none of you any disrespect but, yeah, you are, by design, a sexual object, even if just for that hard-wired drive to perpetuate the species – yeah, we know where babies come from and how they are made and, somewhere along the line, we learned that women are a lot of fun when you fuck them and you’re not trying to knock her up.
Everything about your body is evolutionarily designed to attract men to you… for the purpose of fucking you and making babies. Hell, you even make it more interesting by making yourselves even more beautiful and desirable with makeup, clothing, and the like. You say you do this for yourself, for your self-esteem and image and maybe, just maybe, you are unconsciously doing it to attract men to you, following a program that was installed from way back to the beginning of our species. Yea and verily, some of you want us to see how beautiful you are, the mystery placed before us about how sexy and sensual you are, not just for the sex so much but to attract that potential mate, that guy you can be happy with for however long things last.
Yet, when we pursue you like bees drawn to the beautiful flowers that you are, well, sometimes, that just doesn’t make you happy; you sometimes get unhappy because, yeah, we want to fuck you, we want to possess you and keep you all to ourselves if we can; it makes you feel worthless at times just as it makes you angry that we cannot see the person underneath all that desirable surface. Yea and verily, you now demand that we see the person more than the woman whose body we would just love to spend time depositing sperm into.
I think that you’re right to make this demand because I know that you’re more than a set of nice tits, more than a phat ass, more than a nice, tight, juicy pussy. Yea and verily I say unto you that the finest thing that a woman has to offer isn’t between her legs – it’s her mind and we, as men, would do well to be aware of this and to understand their growing need not to be so objectified. Which, sadly, doesn’t change the fact that despite all of this, you’re still sex objects – you can’t change the evolutionary process but if you could, a lot of you most certainly would.
As a man, I can love your mind and all those things that make you tick, indeed, the things that make you the woman and person that you are… and I will still want to fuck you and the only way that’s not gonna happen is if you do or say things in a way that makes you less desirable in my eyes. You reject me in this (not me personally, of course) and, well, there’s always porn; with this, we can further objectify women because we can see men doing things to women that, in real life, women are not going to let us do and because watching this objectification of women is easier than having to deal with a woman who’s not getting paid to assist in the objectification of women.
Yeah, girls, you read it right: If you object to the objectification of women because of porn, um, there are women who are aiding and abetting in this – and for money, too. So to those women who rant and rave against objectification to men, ah, you might want to turn to your sisters and give them a piece of your mind about them sleeping with the enemy and making this whole thing worst for you.
PV’s blog, for those of you who didn’t bother to read it – and shame on you if you didn’t – is basically about guys who keep coming to her to have their sexual dreams fulfilled and how annoyed she gets at time because they keep coming back and she just doesn’t have the time or even motivation to do this all the time. I said to her, in one of my lengthy comments, that this is what she gets for being good at what she does and that it’s really an occupational hazard. It’s one that all women have to deal with; unless we’re gay, when we want to have sex, we want to have it with you, ladies. This paints one hell of a biological bull’s eye on your cute asses and, yeah, the delicious complexities of that fine mind of yours just adds to your mystique and has that annoying effect of us wanting to spread your legs even more than your looks makes us want to.
You don’t like to be objectified and this male blogger does, in fact, understand this. I understand that we should appreciate and respect you for all of the things that makes you the woman you are but, unfortunately, that also those sexual things that drives some of you totally insane: We want to fuck you; we want to use you and those luscious bodies you own to realize our sexual fantasies – but, sadly and stupidly, we often do this at your expense, don’t we? We take it to extremes, ask more of you than you’re willing or able to do or, much worse, when it’s you with the fantasies and the desire to fulfill them, we totally and utterly crush you because some of us need you to be that pliant, obedient, living sex doll because anything else challenges our masculinity because, let’s face it: Some of us ain’t man enough to deal with you and your sexual desires and fantasies.
So how do you not objectify women? Maybe by not making sex the main and only reason why you want to be with a woman? Women make great friends – no doubts about that. Ah, but if we can fuck you and still be friends with you? Even better… for us, anyway. Our friendship with you – the boundaries we’ve set for this friendship – says that having sex with you would ruin a whole lot of of shit… but if you think we don’t think about doing you, guess again; hell, if you think that we shouldn’t ever think about doing you, guess again.
It pisses you girls off but, damn it, we can’t help it – we’re programmed to behave like that… but if we are to, at the least, minimize our objectification of women, we need to be reprogrammed… and women are doing what they can to reprogram us… but is it working? Does the social reprogramming really stop us from seeing a woman we want to fuck? Perhaps a Jedi mind trick is in order: “You don’t want to have sex with us; this is not the pussy you’re looking for… move along… move along…”
The odd thing is that if we accept the anti-objectification reprogramming and we don’t look at you as the objects of our desires, well, that’s not a good thing either is it? When we behave in a way that takes the sexual object tag off of you, why is that both a good and bad thing for us to do? If we don’t give you a moment’s peace because we’re always trying to get into your panties (or thong if you’re wearing one) – but then we stop trying to do that because you feel objectified, why do you get bent out of shape and more so if you object to the objectification of women?
You want us to objectify you… but not really. You want us to see you as beautiful in mind and body and, thus, desirable… but not all the time. Is it that women want to be able to pick their moments to be sex objects? It could be seen that way and I guess, in a way, it makes sense but we’re talking about choice versus biological programming… and if women are objecting to being objectified, it’s because biology trumps choice at every turn in this. It’s why a lot of men have this opinion of women: We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
I’ve read a few blogs written by women who rail against objectification… and while I respect their opinions in this, they make me shake my head because the stuff they’re ranting and raving against is the very thing that defines our existence. Yeah, sure, maybe we as men shouldn’t do it… but women just lend themselves to objectification even if, again, they’re doing it for their own self-interest. Yes, we should respect and desire the inner woman, her intelligence, her sense of humor, her compassion, the goals she has in life and all those other non-sexual things; we should always value women for the non-sexual contributions they can make in our lives, you know, behind every great man, there’s a great woman.
And when you dazzle us with your brilliance and, yea verily, that dazzling bright inner brilliance… we still want to fuck you and even more than before. Verily I say unto you again that you, woman, can be a beacon of goodness that burns so brightly that you attract us likes moths to the flame and, shit, yeah, we want to burn like motherfuckers in your searing heat.
And for this, we’re uncouth, barbaric assholes and, yep, some of us are. We’re blind, impulsive idiots, unable to see the person behind those great tits and nice ass because we are so horribly driven by our need to physically merge with your bodies as much as humanly possible.
Derrick Flint was wrong – and we all know he was wrong; you are sex objects but, yes, for those of us who are enlightened, you are much more than that. We know this… so, uh, can I hit that thang later, baby? If not, we can always discuss why Einstein’s theory of relativity could be wrong, if that’ll make you happy…
I just had to get this out of my head and I’m giving props to PV for the inspiration to write about this. For the record, I love women and I respect them… but, yeah, y’all make me deliciously crazy – and a lot of that insanity has nothing to do with sex… but, yeah, some of it does.
Flame away…
Kdaddy23's Blog 
Ribbons Undone
8 October 2013 at 18:50
I am not going to flame you. 😀 I applaud you for being so honest. The only thing I do disagree with is your position on men being slaves to their biology. Also, I think a lot of the reason women look they way they do in our society (western culture) is because of the culture. There are cultures where the men wear the makeup and fancy clothes and it’s their job to attract the women. There are cultures where if you are thin (most of western culture’s standard for beauty) then you are considered ugly and unmarriageable.
However, I for one, am glad that I have been considered attractive by some men. I think, honestly, that both sexes like to be considered attractive by whomever they are attracted to. I don’t think that men or women are slaves to their biology. It just takes some growing up and some personal insight to get past it. Everyone is an individual and is loved by someone, whether it is their parents or friends or relatives. Everyone was someone’s baby at one time and if you can see them in that way it sort of dimishes any mental objectification.
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kdaddy23
8 October 2013 at 20:08
Thanks for not flaming me, Ribbons, and I do apologize for not being more culture-specific because I am aware of the other cultures you spoke of – I tend to think American first, not worldly at times. The reason why we objectify women is kinda complex; as a man, I think I understand it and I don’t necessarily approve of it because women are, indeed, more than what they have between their legs. But it’s a social construct that’s been around literally forever; it’s too deeply ingrained in our American culture, just as it is in those cultures where putting and keeping women down is the way it’s always been done.
But let me ask you something, if I may? If men are basically taught to put women on a pedestal, you know, hold them in a place of honor, isn’t that objectification as well and not necessarily in a good way?
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Ribbons Undone
8 October 2013 at 20:20
Well, yes. I personally don’t advocate objectification either way. I didn’t mean to suggest in my comment that by thinking of people as non sexual that that would mean putting them up on a pedestal of virginity or honor where they take one mis-step and fall catastrophically. I’ve dated a couple of men who looked at me that way simply because I was a minister for awhile and, let me tell you, it is a hard place to be. I think the pedestal is on one end of the spectrum of objectification and on the other is the thinking where people are no more than their biological instincts or various body parts. There has to be a middle ground, doesn’t there? A place where a person can be a mother, a lover, a friend, a coworker, adaughter, etc.. without any objectification? Is there such a place? Where a person can simply be acknowleged for what they are (or are not)?
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kdaddy23
8 October 2013 at 20:31
Personally, I don’t think objectification can be avoided. We know that women can be all of the things you mentioned, that those things are very important to her and, thus, should be to us as well… but it is all a social construct to deflect that biological need to choose a mate and have babies… or to just have sex because it’s fun and all that? Because if we’re looking for a mate, someone to have our babies or just to have sex with, you betcha, we’re gonna objectify the hell out of you girls… and that tends to put us in the dog house, right?
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Ribbons Undone
8 October 2013 at 20:39
My ex fiance objectified me quite frequently. He even wrote a song about me which his band still plays. It’s all about sex and lust. I didn’t really mind that so much because we also connected on a mental level. I guess maybe “objectification” may be the wrong word for it. “Lust” might be a better word. I think what you are talking about is less objectification and more about attraction, but maybe I’m wrong.
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kdaddy23
8 October 2013 at 21:30
From where I’ve been sitting, that whole attraction thing is just a part of the whole issue with objectification. Women both love and hate it when men find them attractive because it draws to them unwanted attention or attention from any guy other than the one she wants the attention from… and even if she doesn’t know who he is yet. It’s that we’re attracted to you that gets our juices going as men and that leads to the forms of objectification that some women strongly object to; again, we don’t see that fine, intelligent mind – we see nice tits, nice ass, nice pouty lips, all those things that scream “good sex” to us. Lust is a problem and more so when you have no outlet for it. I have heard men say, “Well, that’s what women are for!”
And those women who are so against objectification start pitching a bitch because we see the attractive woman and the only thing we can think about is having sex with her. And with porn so readily available, well, that whole thing just gets worse, doesn’t it? We start getting the wrong idea about women and our relationship with them, that they’re more like a tool, often have less value than a a valued car or, worse, a loyal dog. The list does get worst, does it not? And that’s because we value your pussy more than we do your mind and the other things you can contribute to a man’s life.
Attraction is only a part of the problem here. Attraction to women is a damned good thing and so is wanting her for sex… but only when it’s done with open, honest respect for her as a fellow human being and not simply a living sex toy. Lust is both good and healthy… but this, too, leads to the whole objectification issue, doesn’t it, i.e., a guy you’re not even remotely interested in is lusting for you like a fiend and he ain’t trying for your ability to do orbital mechanic equations in your head, is he? Such things are only seen as good when the woman wants to accept such adulation, yes?
Like one blog on here that was ranting about men watching too much porn and, as such, contributing to the objectification problem? Why do you (generally, not you-you) think men watch porn? It’s certainly not for the artistic value. It’s about the sex we want to have with women… and the sex we’re probably never going to have with any woman and, no, not even the woman we’ve been with for the last ten years or whatever. Damn near all of the women we see are mind-boggling beautiful, with nice – no, damned nice – bodies that just scream to us to fuck them… and we’re not the lucky ones who get to stick it to her, which plants a nasty seed of dissatisfaction within us and the shit just goes downhill from there.
I think that if I do the math, I have enough porn that I could watch it for months without seeing the same one twice. I know – and my woman knows – that because I have this porn doesn’t mean a damn thing about my feelings for her, my desire to have sex with her and, most importantly, the value I place on her as a woman and as a person in things that have nothing to do with her taking her clothes off. Does that make me a bad man? To some women, no, it doesn’t… but to others?
Now, can you positively objectify a woman by, say, writing a song about her? Writing a poem? Pretty much erecting a shrine in her honor? Sure, we can do that… as long as she doesn’t object to us doing that. But if she does object, if these things are seen as being demeaning in her eyes, well, there you go: We’ve just negatively objectified her, haven’t we?
My god, I hear or read women raising all this hell about this and I wonder if they really understand that it’s not sociology that drives our behavior -it is undeniably biology; the social stuff is in place to hopefully make us behave better about it. The sad fact of the matter is that we don’t all behave better and in the eyes of many men, you are just and only a sex object, nothing more, nothing less. I understand the objection to this but I still wonder if women really do understand why we behave badly like this in their eyes…
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Ribbons Undone
8 October 2013 at 22:56
It seems like you are very frustrated with this issue. Like maybe you feel that it is a no-win type of situation. Of course women only want attention from men they are attracted to, but that’s true for men as well. However, and as you said previously, a person can be very attractive but if they’re personality is rotten that makes them unattractive. It seems to me that you think, or you think that women think, that attraction is a bad thing. It’s only bad if it progresses into unwanted overtures.
On the subject of porn, I’m against it entirely. I think that it presents problems like the one we are talking about here. I think it objectifies the women and the men involved in it. I think that it sets the stage for a very unhealthy emotional and physical boundary situation. I think that it sets people up for unrealistic expectations. I also think it adds to the problem of unwanted overtures from people who happen to think a person is attractive. I think that it sets people’s basest desires on fire and fuels that fire to action.
Otherwise, I think that it is normal and healthy to feel sexual desire. I don’t think that just because you desire someone sexually that that automatically means that you have to objectify them. People are always more than their various holes. People should be treated as individualistically as they really are.
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kdaddy23
9 October 2013 at 00:05
I’m not frustrated about it ’cause I get it… but I get chances to see how others think about this and, yeah, I’m the guy who’s gonna say a few words to that effect. Some women ask the question of why men objectify them… and I’m a guy… and I have some thoughts about that. Yeah, I risk pissing some women off and maybe get my man-card pulled by the fellas… but when you look at the subject of male/female relations in and out of relationships, there’s a serious disconnect taking place and a lot of it has to do with men and how we view and treat women… but also some of the stuff women do that, in the minds of some, justify the view and treatment. Men that have that Old Testament view of women just makes me cringe and the objectification behavior I’ve seen from them makes me ashamed to be a man; because of them, I can be found guilty by association of a dehumanizing act that I don’t approve of.
Otherwise, I don’t let it fuck with me because I can only do my own part in not making a woman feel less than a person or that my only purpose in being with her is for the coochie. But, I’m not gonna lie about it – I do want the coochie as much as I want to partake of those other wonderfully insane things about women because only then can you really appreciate them. But, Ribbons, I’m one guy… but a guy with a blog.
You’ve been kind in wanting to put your two cents in on this bothersome topic and I do appreciate it because if men and women can’t have a decent dialog on this subject, nothing will ever be resolved.
And you’re right: Porn is supposed to do exactly what you said it does – it’s purpose is to affect our baser instincts. Don’t get me wrong – I like porn… but I don’t like the messages it sends, like, it’s not okay to take seven or more inches of erect human penis and ram it down a woman’s throat until she pukes her guts out. I don’t like the “bigger is better” messages that it sends, or that only the most beautiful men or women are the ones who get to have sex, and I don’t even recommend it as a ‘sex ed’ tool. So, yeah, when a guy watches porn and thinks and/or believes that he is supposed to treat women in such a way as he sees on the screen, yeah, that’s objectification at its worst.
Women aren’t chattel… yet do we not still, in this day in time, treat them as if they are? Isn’t there a reason why some women lose their ever-loving minds when some guy suggests that they need to stay in the kitchen, be barefoot, and pregnant? That they don’t have a right to be educated? To work and make just as much and even more money than he does? To have needed an act of Congress to be able to vote and otherwise not be treated like a third-class citizen? To be passed over for promotion in favor of a lesser qualified man? Our society is rife with too many examples of objectification and damn near all of them say that the only thing you’re really good for is being fucked and popping out babies – and then don’t some men fuck you, impregnate you, then ditch you because in their minds, your job has been done and now it’s time to move on to the next woman so he can do the same thing to her?
Frustrated? No… but I do think about this and PV’s blog was great food for thought – kudos to her again for writing such a good blog. And, really, Ribbons, if I, as a man, don’t say what I’m thinking about this, what man will? Any volunteers, fellas?
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